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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

How did people start to believe in this trans stuff?

597 replies

IsThereAnEchoInHere · 11/05/2023 17:53

I’m talking about the ’allys’, the one’s who believe in all this?
How did it make sense to them that women have penis’ now, that transwomen can compete with women, that men who were so oppressive yesterday can today be the most oppressed transwomen?

How did they get to that point?
How did it make sense to them?

To be complitely honest, I tried/ am trying to ’be nice’ and understand, but the more I read (from trans people, allys) the less it makes sense.
I wanted to understand, but my brain won’t let me.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
26
Helleofabore · 26/05/2023 22:31

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 22:20

@Helleofabore Everyone returns to me with the same arguments. I don't need it repeated to me, I am well aware that there are issues. But pretty much all trans people have NOTHING to do with sport competitions, behaving in an innapropriate or predatory way or any of those things. You can support women and trans people at the same time those are not mutually exclusive things

And yet, policy has to be made for all trans people. therefore many discussions about policy, law and guidance has to account for all trans people.

So, absolutely they are to be respected the same as any other group of people. No more and no less.

Good to know though that you believe that the needs of women and children should be equal priority to those of trans people. Most posters on this board are campaigning for just.

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:31

Please quote the post where someone said innocent trans people were few and far between. I didn’t read it. I think it’s possible you may have made a comprehension error.

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:32

Are you, however, acknowledging that transwomen are at least as much of a threat as other men?

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 22:33

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:31

Please quote the post where someone said innocent trans people were few and far between. I didn’t read it. I think it’s possible you may have made a comprehension error.

'few and far between' referring to the 99% of trans people who were innocent

How did people start to believe in this trans stuff?
janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 22:34

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:32

Are you, however, acknowledging that transwomen are at least as much of a threat as other men?

Yes, I can acknowledge that. Does not mean I hate men and trans women though. I still respect both groups in the majority

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 22:35

Anklespraying · 26/05/2023 22:30

I am again requesting sources and statistics. It seems you have pulled this information from thin air

Again you are oblivious to all the information men put in the public domain.

Take a look instead of posting here as if the entire porn soaked internet doesn't exist and expecting us to pander to your innocence.

I take this as a sign that you have conceded, and cannot in fact find said statistics.

Anklespraying · 26/05/2023 22:35

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 22:33

'few and far between' referring to the 99% of trans people who were innocent

Show quote history

Absolutely that is rubbish.

Far more than 1 percent of men who identify as women are demanding access to female spaces.

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:35

That quote says that transwomen who are not predators or stealing women’s spaces are few and far between.

You’ve read it as transwomen who are not predators are few and far between.

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:37

What percentage of transwomen do you believe consistently use male facilities, Jane?

Anklespraying · 26/05/2023 22:37

99 percent have nothing to do with stealing spaces.

This is your claim @janeinthewild

So what do you actually know if you are making ludicrous statements like that?

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 22:40

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:35

That quote says that transwomen who are not predators or stealing women’s spaces are few and far between.

You’ve read it as transwomen who are not predators are few and far between.

Still received no evidence for either claim. Here is the UK report for inmates, near the top is the section about transgender inmates, of which there are only 230. That is out of 83,000 inmates in total, meaning that only 0.003% of inmates are transgender.

Anklespraying · 26/05/2023 22:42

Don't change the subject

Back up your statement you just had a tantrum about.

You said 99 percent have no interest in stealing women's spaces.

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:43

Yes, but if you then compare that 230 to the amount of people staying they are transwomen in the census (which is overstated due to people with English as a second language getting the question wrong), you discover that 230 represents a group which is five times more likely to be put in prison for a sexual offences than other men.

Anklespraying · 26/05/2023 22:43

Anklespraying · 26/05/2023 22:42

Don't change the subject

Back up your statement you just had a tantrum about.

You said 99 percent have no interest in stealing women's spaces.

Actually you are seriously transphobic for even saying that.

GailBlancheViola · 26/05/2023 22:47

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 22:27

@midgemadgemodge And yet men are allowed to live without constant criticism from MN

Um have you read any of the threads in AIBU or Relationships?

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:50

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1611682182405160961?t=Kv1nsuxwEr3WlpagKYi7jA&s=19

this is from a previous thread, it shows that 1 in 585 transwomen are currently in prison for sexual offences, as compared to 1 in 2500 men (there are 48000 transwomen in the U.K. according to the census)

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1611682182405160961?t=Kv1nsuxwEr3WlpagKYi7jA&s=19

GailBlancheViola · 26/05/2023 22:50

Here is the UK report for inmates, near the top is the section about transgender inmates, of which there are only 230. That is out of 83,000 inmates in total, meaning that only 0.003% of inmates are transgender.

And have you looked at the percentages of transgender inmates incarcerated for sexual offending and compared that to the percentage of males who are incarcerated for sexual offending?

Anklespraying · 26/05/2023 22:52

Jane went very quiet.
I'm guessing hyperbole and excessive submission has caused a bit of a rethink.

Come on Jane. 99 percent of trans identifying men don't want to steal (oh how transphobic that thought is Jane) spaces.

What the actual fuck is anyone talking about then Jane? And where is your bubble? The Scilly Isles?

Waitwhat23 · 26/05/2023 22:52

Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:22

1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually abused. The amount of men who are sex offenders is sadly far greater than 1%
Transwomen are at least as likely to be sexually offenders as other men, with the most recent British statistics available pointing towards levels of offending in transwomen being considerably higher than in the general male population.

This may have been posted already, but just in case

How did people start to believe in this trans stuff?
Nellodee · 26/05/2023 22:55

Thanks WaitWhat23. What we have here again, is someone coming to this board to lecture us all for being so ignorant without realising how evidence based our stance is. We women are expected to be kind, but very rarely clever.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/05/2023 22:55

@janeinthewild

You can support women and trans people at the same time those are not mutually exclusive things

Women (original female meaning) are disadvantaged by a society which,.due to historic sexism, is structurally and culturally built around males as the default person. To counteract this, we need protections, opportunities and sometimes physical spaces which are women-only to escape from male entitlement, heal our wounds and explore our full potential, and we need the political and cultural right to speak as female people to share our experiences, understand our challenges and fight for what we need to overcome them.

Trans women want us not to have these female-only provisions because they will be excluded from a group they believe should include them by virtue of a mental womanhood they believe they posses. They do not recognise that we may have challenges and needs that they do not share.

These two positions are mutually exclusive.

How would you resolve them?

AmuseBish · 26/05/2023 23:13

janeinthewild · 26/05/2023 22:27

@midgemadgemodge And yet men are allowed to live without constant criticism from MN

"Feminists don't criticise men enough" is certainly a new one, I'll give you that.

AmuseBish · 26/05/2023 23:19

If 100% of people who say "I am trans" never broke the law, always indicated at roundabouts, and even politely texted in advance before ringing anyone's doorbell, it still wouldn't change the fact that law and society needs to recognise that there are some occasions where sex matters, and that someone's sex cannot be changed by feelings.

aseriesofstillimages · 26/05/2023 23:26

AmuseBish · 26/05/2023 22:24

It doesn't matter what anyone "is like". Either you think sex matters in some circumstances or you think it never matters and gender-feeling should be used to differentiate people.

You don't need to know what any particular person "is like" to think about how changes in law and policy to eradicate sex could be misused by anybody, trans or not, however you even define "trans".

Either you think sex matters in some circumstances or you think it never matters and gender-feeling should be used to differentiate people

I’m not sure anyone thinks sex never matters in any circumstances - if you want to reproduce it’s pretty crucial. The real issue is identifying when and where it matters, and what you should do to take account of it in those circumstances.