How did people start to believe in this trans stuff?

[IsThereAnEchoInHere]

I’m talking about the ’allys’, the one’s who believe in all this?
How did it make sense to them that women have penis’ now, that transwomen can compete with women, that men who were so oppressive yesterday can today be the most oppressed transwomen?

How did they get to that point?
How did it make sense to them?

To be complitely honest, I tried/ am trying to ’be nice’ and understand, but the more I read (from trans people, allys) the less it makes sense.
I wanted to understand, but my brain won’t let me.

Cruel, as I said. Also elitist. Its Nazi roots show at times - there's a definite whiff of eugenics about a lot of it..

Indeed. Trans or being 'non binary' or 'gender neutral' appears to be the 'in fashion' thing at present and teens are really going for it. But some are then accepted and pushed into it and before they know it living as the opposite sex. They can never become the opposite sex because sex cannot be changed and therefore enter a time of misery thinking they can be. How many of these young people are teens with the usual teen angst over body issues but the current fashion is to assume they must be trans or one of the other groups.

Definitely. ‘Born In The Wrong Body’ is a massively offensive idea.

Theres everything right about kicking against gender norms, we’ve all been there, but lying to kids by selling them magical thinking and expecting everyone else to validate that magical thinking constantly- even at the risk of their own risk of safety, privacy and dignity- is just festooned with giant red flags all around.

Yep. It should be seen as valid, and people should be able to get help from a therapist if they wish, without risk of anyone getting in trouble for "conversion therapy".

I also do wonder if drugs may be found to help people in the future.

Some people are able to hold compassionate views for others. I know it seems like a difficult concept to grasp at first but not everyone feels the same way about their bodies as you do towards yours and some people feel as if they were born in the wrong bodies. I believe that as a society we should recognise these people and validate their identity.

At the end of the day we only have to be respectful and considerate of people who are different to us, it's not particularly hard and costs you nothing. Be kind gurl😉

I don't see any compassion whatsoever in encouraging a child to think that their body is wrong and must be changed and that anyone who thinks otherwise hates them and wants them dead.

@Girlboss1989 my 20 year old cousin found a private surgeon willing to do a double mastectomy. I don't have kind thoughts about that surgeon who is laughing all the way to the bank. Also for my cousin in their 50s who was castrated ten years ago and still has complications. And I see my best friend from school whose spouse transitioned last year and they are truly suffering. Where is your kindness for them?

I believe that as a society we should recognise these people and validate their identity.

Why do we have to validate an identity that conflicts with the rights of biological women to privacy, dignity and safe spaces? We know that it is not possible to actually change sex, and that a man adopting a stereotypically feminine presentation remains a man. Why don't you turn your kindness towards recognizing people's rights to present themselves in any manner they choose without invading spaces reserved for the opposite sex?

Does validating identity incorporate teenagers being medicalised in your book? Or are you just discussing adults who have been shown to be absolutely without any mental health issues that could block their ability to make healthy decisions for themselves?

Because as a parent of a teen, I can assure you that it is NOT kind or considerate or respectful of people to allow teenagers to cut off their breasts, or go onto medication that will significantly and negatively impact their lives. Even shorten it.

You can't make sweeping generalisations about a topic that is intrinsically individual. Of course in some cases it will be the wrong decision to allow a minor to undergo physical surgery or hormone treatment, however this ought to be dealt with on a case by case basis and a medical professional and phycologist ought to intervene and determine the most appropriate course of action for each individual.

In some cases it would be appropriate to allow a child to follow this course, but like I said it totally depends on the case.

In some cases it would be appropriate to allow a child to follow this course, but like I said it totally depends on the case.

Hard disagree, but let's hear why you think this would be an appropriate course of action for a child.

I cant work out if you’re being tongue in cheek or not, with your ‘be kind gurl 😉’ …

…but in case you are 😑 it does ‘cost me something’.

It costs me my single-sex spaces. It infringes on my safety, privacy and dignity.

And unfortunately for the ‘be kind gurl 😉’ brigade, this means we’re pushing back, and #bekind is over.

It would be ‘appropriate’ to allow a child with no adult understanding to:

• mutilate their body
• jeopardise their chance of having normal, healthy intimate relationships as an adult
• render themselves infertile…?

But … be kind, gurl.

I cant work out if you’re being tongue in cheek or not, with your ‘be kind gurl 😉’ …

I think we either have a new actual teenager or man pretending to speak as he imagines a female teenager would. This is not the language that adult women use.

But (s)he’s Gurlboss1989, so (s)he must be a girl!

How is your safety, privacy or dignity jeopardised by a trans person using the same toilet facilities as you do. Trans people are just people you don't need to be afraid of them.

I believe that as a society we should recognise these people and validate their identity.

I'm not going to pretend they're the opposite sex. You do you. You can believe what you like.

I'd rather people sought to be fair, than "kind". It isn't always kind to tell people what they want to hear and give them what they want.

Men are just people. They’re also the ones who commit the overwhelming majority of violence against women. And the dodgy ones don’t come with helpful warning signs, which is why we have - until now - excluded ALL of them from women’s single-sex spaces.

I don’t care if your transwoman friend is nice. You ‘be kind gurl’, if you want to. I don’t want to, and I don’t want male-bodied people - however they identify - in my single sex spaces.

And, with self-ID, it’s no longer just about trans people.

Anyone (not matter how nefarious) who says they’re a woman gets to come into our single-sex spaces, and if I have an issue with that, I’m the bigot, I’m silenced and my rights are removed.

It costs me something. It costs me a lot. No more ‘be kind gurl’. Sorry for you.

But has it actually been shown that psychologists can accurately judge who has long term gender dysphoria and who doesn't?

It may indeed be "individual", but if you can't really tell, then I suggest it becomes unethical to treat children.

You can't treat two children, when one of them would have naturally recovered anyway. In that case the best thing is non-intervention.

Which cases will it be appropriate for a teenager to have an elective double mastectomy?

Which cases will it be appropriate for a teenager to take drugs that will leave them with significant risk of osteoporosis, of their teeth falling from their gums or them never having their penis develop to maturity?

And which cases will it be appropriate for teenaged female trans people to sacrifice their fertility, and maybe shorten their life due to early onset dementia in their 40s, and risk permanent damage to their organs. to the point that they have permanent bladder damage?

I find your handwaving to minimise the reality here. You either don't care about the health of these teenagers or you are so entrenched in ideological thinking that you cannot accept the medical specialists who are raising the alarm.

Either way, you seem very ill informed and you seem very happy to have children go through experimental treatments in your 'kindness'.

Have you never used a female toilet? Or do you simply not ever see the women who are doing things in female toilets where they rely on the dignity of there only being other female people there.

To see them wash out clothes, to see them deal with pram blocked doors while dealing with their flooding periods, to see them have to assist the elderly in their care onto toilets when there is not 'accessible' toilet available and the doors simply cannot be closed? No? Never noticed this? What a privilege that you have never had to experience it yourself then.

I believe that as a society we should recognise these people and validate their identity.

Does that include straight men and lesbians should be willing to be romantic and sexual with trans-women?

Also, presumably you want to validate trans-race people? So white people can now be seen as black?

Why are TRAs obsessed with toilets?

There is a whole intersecting network of women-only rights, protections, spaces and opportunties, some physical, some legal, some social, which exist to mitigate the disadvantage, lack of power and in some cases physical risks that come from being female-bodied in a society that was shaped for and by male-bodied people. A single-sex toilet is just one small part of that.

By continuing to focus only on toilets, TRAs are missing this big picture. It's not just about physical "fear" of male bodies, although for most female people sometimes, and for some, those who have suffered most at the hands of male abuse, all the time, it certainly is that. It is about having a public space where you are not being interrrupted because a man wants to chat, it's about having a cultural space where female perspectives and voices are heard, it's about having a professional space where female achivements and potential is recognised.

These provisions are not called "women-only" because they exist for the use of anyone who can change the definition of "woman" to include them. They are called "women-only" because "woman" was the name given to the female-bodied people whose needs they exist in response to.

@Girlboss1989 you said "How is your safety, privacy or dignity jeopardised by a trans person using the same toilet facilities as you do. Trans people are just people you don't need to be afraid of them."

We already know you are happy to open up these women-only provisions, shaped for and by female-bodied people as a response to our society's structural sexism, to trans women.

Would you also open up these women-only provisons to all males? After all, Male people are just male people you don't need to be afraid of them?

And if not, why is it that female safety, privacy or dignity are at risk from male people, except the ones who claim to be women? What, other than this claim which is after all just a few words with no way to prove them or even an accepted understanding of what they mean, is the difference between the males you think are ok to let in and the ones you don't?