How did people start to believe in this trans stuff?

[IsThereAnEchoInHere]

I’m talking about the ’allys’, the one’s who believe in all this?
How did it make sense to them that women have penis’ now, that transwomen can compete with women, that men who were so oppressive yesterday can today be the most oppressed transwomen?

How did they get to that point?
How did it make sense to them?

To be complitely honest, I tried/ am trying to ’be nice’ and understand, but the more I read (from trans people, allys) the less it makes sense.
I wanted to understand, but my brain won’t let me.

I'll just pull up a chair next to you whilst we wait for someone to explain because I'm buggered if I know!

Great question!

Like the emperor's new clothes on a massive scale. Inexplicable.

I don't know. I still think what I always thought - it's not possible to change sex. Other people have changed their minds.

Good question.

I'd also like to know when it was, and why, so many people started to believe that children could be transsexual. What convinced these people that children who were still too young to understand about sex and reproduction could be 'really' transsexual? What made them believe that these children should be treated as though they were the opposite sex and prevented from going through puberty? What on earth happened to their brains?

I think people are so focussed on being kind, being inclusive, being progressive they are failing to see the bigger picture, i.e that this ultimately leads to exclusion and discrimination against women (the ones with vaginas) in situations such as prisons, rape crisis centres, sports etc etc. It has bigger, negative consequences for us.

It started with threats of suicide and people gently being ask to just not take the piss when they saw a man dressed up as a women. It was still seen as a mental disorder though.

It then somehow got aligned with "coming out", and people finding their true self after being miserable all of their lives.

Then Bruce Jenner.

Fucked if I know. Especially the ones that regularly post on here who have been informed many times of the issues with this ideology. I can only assume that they believe that males are far more important than females.

People somehow equate it with homophobia is one thing.

I wonder too if most people feel that no one truly knows them so they think “aha! These people are misunderstood as I am”.

But mostly it’s the madness of crowds (must read Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds). A lot of people, even clever people, think that if authority says it, or the in-crowd, then it must be true.

see: Josef Goebbels and the big lie.

Or some people just have a different opinion or experience than you?

Shocking I know.

I don't share your views, but I respect your right to think that way. I will not belittle you or imply you're simple. Maybe you could afford the "allies" the same courtesy?

BiggerBoat I’m afraid I find it impossible to extend courtesy to people who believe male rapists should be in women’s prisons, men can become women simply by donning a wig and dress, it’s ok to stunt children’s puberty and surgically remove their body parts, it’s fine for males to cheat their way to medals in women’s sports and that humans can change sex.

Some views are not deserving of respect and courtesy.

I believe that trans people deserve the same human rights as everyone else. But that’s not what we are being asked to support any more, it’s gone way beyond that.

I know plenty of women who cannot accept that men and women aren’t equal, or that women are routinely oppressed by men or male formed organisations.
The women who can’t hear anything like “here’s the number for women’s aid” without automatically piping up with “what about men?”.
The women who see other women as competition, as rivals, or by default put other women down, or hold them to far higher standards than they do men.
The attitude that seems mainstream in men (because they have no skin in the game and love the chance to shut a gobby woman up) seems to be very common amongst those who identify as libfems (ie, not feminists at all), and from there comes masses of “be kind”, which leads to TWAW which I don’t think anyone truly believes, but they are competing in out-TWAWing each other.
From here, people tend to not care enough to look into it themselves, and because the TQ+ are lumped in with the LGB they think it’s the same fight that the LGB had, or they’re not critical thinkers, or they just don’t care (which applies to loads of men I know - it’s not affecting them, it sounds ridiculous, no one would do a thing like that, then ignore it).

The wholesale acceptance by mainstream organisations means that many won’t question it because they naively trust that those orgs have our best interests at heart.

I find it hard not to judge all the "allies" who have openly supported the transitioning of children, who have stood by - and are still standing by - handwaving away the medical and psychological experimentation on children.
A while ago I thought they meant to be kind but were misguided.

Now, post Cass and with all the revelations about the deliberate suppression of research and the terrible consequences on young people's bodies, I feel less sympathetic.

When those views have a negative impact on another demographic (women) then no, I can't. And we shouldn't.

People find it easy to believe because it fits the big ideas/myths of our culture:

• Consumerism (I can be anything I want to be: it's my choice)
• Kindness (just be kind, that's all that matters)
• Authenticity (I have a true hidden self)
• Liberation (black liberation, then gay liberation, then...)
• Individualism (I shape my own identity)
• Introspection/narcissism (I spend all day thinking about myself)

Another who doesn't understand.
People I'd been friends with for years cut me off.
They're choosing a lie over a friend, it makes no sense.

I suspect for some it all starts with “be kind” and then the demands just slowly increase with the punishment being called a Nazi or bigot. People are so desperate to be “liberal” that they are prepared to keep pretending to comfort themselves they are on the right side of history. Others are just MRAs.

Yes this.
I can be open minded and can accept other political views that I don’t agree with, I can deliberately sit on the fence with other polarised issues, but transing children and allowing men to have access to women’s spaces despite the amount of evidence proving the harms to women and children? Nope, I can’t be friends with anyone who believes that’s ok. It has to be deliberate/wilful/toxic misunderstanding at this point.

I can tell you how I nearly got sucked in.

When my child was small there were so many articles from mermaids talking about children feeling like they were the opposite sex.
I understood that the best possible thing was to obtain puberty blockers so that a child can pass, since they were absolutely never going to feel ok in their own skin otherwise.

What snapped me back out of it was hearing on the radio for the first time that trans women are women.
It hadn't occurred to me to that point that they absolutely were women. It was an interesting thought but made me feel something akin to shame that I'd not understood that. (I can still picture myself at the traffic lights feeling a bit mind blown).
A week previously I'd just bought an aquaintance who identified as a woman a birthday present of makeup. This was my way of signifying to that person that I accepted them as they identified. I felt good about the gesture and polished my halo a bit.
On hearing this declaration on the radio, it occurred to me that if I'd really viewed them as the sex they wanted to be, I wouldn't have tried over compensating in the way I did and would probably have just bought them a bottle of wine.
I then couldn't make my mind do the mental hoops to get to twaw and felt like a terrible person.

Then came Germain Greer "I don't care" which I thought was terrible but it piqued my interest why someone wouldn't see someone as the most oppressed for the life they had foisted upon them. I started looking into it properly then.
It was far more comfortable to question my previous understanding than try to absolutely convince myself of something I could see was not true, though it has been a long process. Without hearing twaw I might never have started it.

BiggerBoat1

I too am keen to understand how you explain it. Can you explain whether you genuinely think that someone can change sex? Or is it that you believe that gender should have the exact same priority to sex?

If you don't believe that some can change sex, do you disbelieve the studies about male athletes not losing their physical advantages? or do you fully support 'inclusion' at all costs including fairness for women in sports?

I'd like to know what has happened to all previous child development understanding. That small children, instead of being encouraged to play with whatever they want and expand their imagination, they are judged for their choices and put in boxes. Parents taking small children to GPs because of these choices and the GPs referring them on instead of giving the parents some straightforward advice that their child is perfectly normal.

The Denton's report lays out the initial very successful tactics with powerful men working behind the scenes in the law, politics, charities, the media etc to set in place the unacceptable and then ensure that it would be accepted by piggybacking the T alongside LGB.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

Explosion of MH issues. All those I know who are well and truly enmeshed in this have various MH issues from depression, BPD, anxiety, and social anxiety. Add in neurodiversity to get the mix ripe for it.
Also, there is a lack of diversity in youth culture. As a child and teen, we had glamrock, mods, rockers, punk, new romantic, etc. kids looking to break away and form identity had 'tribes' they could join where they felt they belonged. All I see are identikit teens these days...trans kids can feel special, adults fall over themselves to not upset them.

The thing that spark me to ask this was when I saw a transwoman say -
this was on TikTok,where someone question trans momevent, in respectful way, just saying she doesn’t understand how man can be a woman
— that the woman asking had to have ”very elementary knowledge on human biology” and I was just lost.

One thing I keep on running into is being told that I don’t know or understand anything or most have very old fashioned education, without anyone actually answering anything.

A mixture of brownie points for being kind, being inclusive, and being on the side of the aggressive bullies so they don't get harassed or bullied themselves, as well as appearing on the side of right (even though it clearly isn't). Not a moral or brave way to live.

“Be kind” 😒
But also a genuine desire to not be wrong. Racism homophobia, sexism all persist because the majority turn a blind eye. So my first reaction was to understand not judge. But my initial real life gender id wtf moment was a girl at dds school 10 years ago. I’d clocked her as vulnerable years before she was transed. She’s detransitioned now of course.