17yr old DD thinks she is trans - challenging behaviour

[strugglingteenmum]

DD announced she was bi-sexual approx end of 2022, so around 15 yrs old. Went to her end of GCSE prom in a tuxedo. Great. Looked fab.

Started college, dyes hair pink. All good.

Cuts hair really short , still all good.

Now she's about to finish college.

Announced about 6 months ago that her pronouns were now they / them. If we get it wrong then v v upset. It's a struggle to get it right, but we try.

They don't bring up the subject much but JKR is the devils own and any discussion on trans rights / women's rights on the radio for example is met with awful anger.

Out of the blue 2 weeks ago, casually mentioned she might use her life's savings when it becomes hers to access at 18 for 'top surgery'. That scares the living s**t out of me. I've held it together and I gently spoke to her at the time to say that I don't agree with cutting off healthy parts of the body and I don't believe you can change sex. Happy for anyone to present / dress how they want etc but we have sexed bodies. Not discussed it since.

She bought a book and left it in my room on Sunday 'The Transgender Teen'. I sent her a text to say thank you; I'll read it and I know you're struggling and I love you .....

Fine. I'm treading on eggshells around her but benefit of the doubt for being a moody stroppy teenager as her final exams are v soon.

Now last night, totally out of character she has taken a library book out of the middle of a stack of books in my bedroom, 'Irreversible damage' and put it in the kitchen bin.

She's left the house already and I might not see them tonight as I'm out. Do I text and say 'why?' Or 'WTF - disposing of books instead of reading alternative opinions is not a good look'?

WWYD?

Oh my god, thank you!

We were discussing a pot of money that could come to her at 18 of about £8k and that's when she said about the top surgery so she already knows how much it costs. It's sickening that if you put top surgery UK as a search on Google in comes up with adverts from private cosmetic surgeons. That pot is on a trust so it's not easy to access. Needs mine and grandparents signature.

I'm actually going to move a good chunk of the money in her junior isa so she has to come thru us to get it. It's not something I would do lightly but I am terrified she's going to get a double mastectomy privately at 18 with no thought it discussion.

I think I would try to negotiate with her that although you understand her concerns about her body, to please leave it 2 - 3 years before she does anything drastic because her brain is still developing, her sense of self is still changing and she might feel completely differently in time. In all likelihood by that point things will have changed a lot for her and she will feel differently.

Also that body changes are permanent, waiting 3 years doesn't mean she can't get it in the future and you will support her if after a period of time she is still 100% certain that is what she wants to do.

So a promise of future support but with a proviso that she needs to wait, even if her feelings now are super strong because of the development she's still undergoing they will very possibly change - better than future irreversible potential regret.

Maybe backed up with studies to educate her about changes to the brain between the ages of 18 - 25 and changes to the sense of self between these ages. I didn't feel fully happy with my own self (not in a trans way but in a dysmorphia way) until my mid twenties at least.

Thank you Jelly Friz. That's a good idea. She may not want to even do that. She.gets very upset and adult calm logic just makes her worse.

Probably wise - remove that source of conflict (and buy yourself a kindle so DD can’t see what you’re reading!)

We used a private therapist (via video call) for a couple of years but abandoned it recently - there is a lot of resistance to anything that can be framed as conversion therapy - perhaps going in with ASD as the exploration will help avoid this?

Agree with above re: Thoughtful Therapists - also Genspect.

another approach is for you to have a counsellor/therapist who advises you on how to react to /manage DD’s behaviour - sort of like Cognitive Behaviour Therapy but by proxy rather than directly.

Yes. I thought my mental health was quite strong, but the last two weeks have shown me that it really isn't! It feels like grief and I've been crying so much and find it hard to concentrate at work. Dream of moving out myself / flying to Greece and staying there 😏

It sounds so bloody hard. I would be moving the money or changing it so she can't access it till she's older (25? 30? 90?😂) if possible.

My son is non binary. He hasn't gone any further luckily, and hasn't asked me to change pronouns. Probably because I'm very blunt (I am autistic) and wouldn't lie. He knows I think it's all bollocks, we have argued a few times. Now we don't talk about it.

My immediate response to your opening post is to leave "Irreversible Damage" in her room for her to read. But she's ahead of me there.

Don't return it until you've read it, it's full of good info, although heartbreaking.

Sorry you're having to put up with such shitty behaviour, where do they get their entitlement from?

It’s so hard - like all our years of love and support suddenly become invisible to them.

Tbf I was a massive dickhead to my own mother between the ages of about 15-17 and only really realised what a nob I’d been to her when I was 23-24 (and my frontal cortex was finally developed!) and that was late 80s/early 90s, so I suspect there is some
sort of evolutionary biology reason for a period of mother-as-foe and the current trans stuff just gloms onto it and makes the teen think they are morally in the right (where in my teen era people of all ages would directly question me as to why I was treating my lovely, kind, patient, supportive mother as though she were Satan in an apron!)

It makes me wonder how the kids with 100% trans affirming parents will exhibit teen rebellion? Lots of stories on here and elsewhere re: how even absolute acceptance of a new trans identity doesn’t always prevent family alienation.

I had modest success with getting my teen to think by saying, 'Goodness, you must have a lot more faith in medical procedures always going well than I do.'

(Mine was not trans, but talking furiously about body issues and spending savings on surgery because of 'tubular breasts', which in my view was an online name for just normal smallish ones after rashly rapid weight loss.)

What didn't work was talking to her about possibly losing sensation in an erogenous zone or losing the ability to breastfeed -- two of the actual benefits of breasts. Nope. More fury, largely caused by dire embarrassment, I'd say.

I think I would try to negotiate with her that although you understand her concerns about her body, to please leave it 2 - 3 years before she does anything drastic because her brain is still developing, her sense of self is still changing and she might feel completely differently in time. In all likelihood by that point things will have changed a lot for her and she will feel differently.

I would suggest that she doesn't want to rush into it because "best practice and the chance of a good outcome" will improve if she gives it a few more years. That way you can look at the cases where it's gone wrong as 'these are what you definitely want to avoid, let's make sure you aren't one of the unlucky ones'.

Have this on hand for her, really listen to people who have had the procedures.

Also, I haven't had a procedure because although I am in daily pain, and have been for 9 years now, the risks of the procedure are actually worse than the benefits. So I opt for the pain. It is what as an adult you absolutely have to do for yourself. So if she is grown up enough to consent to the procedure she should be grown up enough to listen to people who have had negative outcomes and discuss them with you.

Is there a way you can tactfully tell her that she's clearly been radicalised by crazy stuff off the Internet, much of it generated by friendless paranoid basement-dwellers, that reasonable people do not get particularly bothered by being misgendered, that unlike what she may have heard people are not out to get her every time they do something she doesn't like, and that her subscription to this ideology is clearly making her less happy, not more?

It makes me wonder how the kids with 100% trans affirming parents will exhibit teen rebellion? Lots of stories on here and elsewhere re: how even absolute acceptance of a new trans identity doesn’t always prevent family alienation.

that is an interesting question. I remember seeing a young trans woman travelling with their mum, and it seemed to me a very enmeshed relationship, where the added attention was also giving the mother something. A bit Munchausen's by proxy or whatever that is now called.

I’m sure you are right but in IME (and from several years of support groups with other parents in this position) families need to spend a bit of time actively building trust and love back into the parent-child relationship before you can go for a direct challenge like this (unless it’s a much younger child, in which case you can tell them this and then put internet on lockdown and wait for 6 months to a year for them to admit you were correct).
With an older teen you risk them taking the side of the people who are feeding them this shite and running off into the arms of a ‘glitter family’.

You need to quickly separate two issues which (if I have read your post correctly) are blurred.

1. The issue of whether you can change sex - I would not talk about this in any way shape or form. It's a debate that is causing a major problem between you and your dd. And it is just an argument. The rights and wrongs are obvious, but the consequences are a fall out and alienation. So avoid it.

2. The issue of top surgery: this is an immediate and critical issue if she has the means and opportunity to do this. I would not address this in terms of "removing healthy body parts", I would address it as having surgery that carries risks, that will cause pain and that will prevent her from feeding a baby should she choose to have one. You could point out that in relationships where people are trans, often someone who identifies as a man but was born a girl (ie like your dd) will have a baby since their body is capable of doing it. Furthermore, breasts are an erogenous zone and she is depriving herself of sexual pleasure which she may sorely regret in later life, regardless of how she identifies - those nerve endings are there.

Prevention of top surgery and maintaining some sort of relationship with her is a priority over any pronouns (just use whatever she wants) and debating whether sex change is possible (just avoid).

What a supportive thread. Tragic to see so many families who're struggling with this but heartwarming to hear the tales of those who've come out the other side and the genuine thoughtful empathic advice being shared .
My children are older and got through the teen / university years before this shit embedded itself and I (& interestingly) they, are very grateful for that.

And thank you for this little gem @NicCageisnotNickCave

"..question me as to why I was treating my lovely, kind, patient, supportive mother as though she were Satan in an apron!" 😁

Is there any way that you can block access to these savings until she's 25?
Or, delay expenditure on top surgery by asking her to move out and support herself at 18? (and spending the savings on accommodation/bills/adulthood)

I'm moving the money. She can ask for access and present a good case, ie to buy a car or travel but not for top surgery. I agree I need to find ways to build the trust and love again. It's so hard in the face of constant anger and rejection. I have kept my feelings very level and not risen to the point of having debates. Tried so hard to keep repeating that I love her, she is always my child and it's hard to watch her struggle and be upset.

I will no longer be debating sex changes. Just pointless. I will be looking for a therapist as I believe that psychological distress needs a psychological solution, not hormones and surgery.

I will tell her that taking items from my room, especially books, is not OK. But not go ballistic. I'm doing everything I can to stay in the conversation and not send her running off to the 'glitter police'!

Thank you for all your thoughtful replies and helpful contacts. I knew I could rely on you all!

Excellent approach @strugglingteenmum. Good luck.

Im really sorry that youre going through this. It absolutely horrifies me.
Block block block funds!

If gender ideology was this insidious when I was a teen then theres a 99.99% chance I'd be sitting here without breasts right now. As would many of my gay female friends - we've discussed it at length.

It’s ironic that it’s her/your privilege that is leading her to potentially destroying her life.

If you were poor and didn’t have a pot to piss in I very much doubt she’d be concerning herself with “trans” issues.

I don’t know what the solution is though.

Is there anything you can do to stop her getting access to that money when she turns 18?

Good luck OP. I'm glad you have had so much warm, calm advice from people further along that path.

@CheekNerveGallAudacityandGumption with respect that is bollocks.

Huge numbers of kids in the care system are falling prey to this ideology and the NHS is recruiting doctors to perform the surgery!

Sorry, just RTFT. Glad you can keep the money out of her hands! Hopefully until this phase passes...