Controversial but curious.....

[JBEM4]

I'm fully aware I'm putting myself in a position whereby I'm going to be massively offended by some replies to this but I hope that they can at least be respectful.

I'm not sure what the point of my very long essay is but I do hope that I can at least make just one person be more open minded and realise that discrimination of any form is a choice and an unnecessary at that.

Here goes.....

I have a trans son (19). He started his journey aged 13. It was a natural and organic transition and I, as everyone who knows him, expected it.

He's done 3 years of counselling with a clinical psychologist (monthly), has never questioned who he is not even for a second and is finally starting testosterone this month that will (he hopes) give him facial hair, give him a more masculine appearance and deepen his voice. For context, if you met him today you wouldn't know he was trans.

Fortunately FTM individuals don't seem to attract a fraction of the hostility, outrage and offence that MTF people do - why is that?

I do try to understand others opinions but for the life of me can't fathom how/why people feel qualified and entitled enough to be so personally offended, judgemental, ignorant and vocal in their views that the trans community aren't worthy of respect let alone basic human rights.

No one chooses to be trans and those who are brave enough to transition do so because being at peace with themselves and living THEIR best life is more important to them despite the adversity, discrimination and abuse they'll receive from society.

My son is my son. His genitals do not define him. As parents we fight for our kids, for their right to have support, opportunities and advantages in life.. Parents will take on the whole damn system to get an autism diagnosis for their child because as a parent YOU know your child needs the right support and all that the health system can offer so your child can live their life and be the best they can be......

Why are trans kids/adults any different?
I've been accused of abusing my child, grooming my child, been told that he needs psychiatric help, he'll grow out of it, and that he doesn't have the right to live his life as he needs to.

These are comments that no one is brave enough to say to my face.

Not understanding what it is to be trans, not having experiences, contact or relationships with someone who's trans does not afford anyone the right to decide/debate on their existence. Being so absolute in opposition/denial/disgust of how another person lives their life while having zero impact on anyone else's.

So come at me. Please tell me how a trans person has personally offended you or negatively impacted your life and why a human beings value can't be based on their character and whether they're simply just a good person?

*not "agreeing" with being trans isn't a valid excuse.....

Pinkice

You will find many of us on this board. I remember distinctly asking my mother if I could be a boy. She laughed and told me no, I couldn’t change my sex. But that she understood how I felt.

At least I only had to wear dresses very occasionally, and they were home made and made with love so I appreciated mum’s time and effort even if I didn’t like them. Otherwise ‘stereotypes’ were not big in my home. I just played with my big brother and did all the things he did.

I think everyone here would dearly like to know what human rights the OP thinks trans people don't have, or are at risk of losing.

This is one of the questions that we continually ask those who make this statement, ever hopeful that it will be answered - it never is. I conclude by their failure to answer that those who make it know full well that it is a completely false statement and the reasons for using it are devious.

It is, however, probably true to say that we want to take rights away from trans people, in the sense that we don't think they should be allowed to use spaces or compete in sports for the opposite sex, which they are currently allowed to do.

But this isn't a human right, and the reason we think it should be taken away is because it never should have been granted in the first place and it has caused harmful consequences.

There are plenty of precedents for taking away people's rights where there is a public interest in doing so, for example, smoking. The UK has taken away the right of 16 and 17 year olds to buy cigarettes. New Zealand has taken away the right of all people born after 2008 to buy cigarettes. Many countries have taken away the right of everybody to smoke cigarettes in bars and restaurants. This has been done to protect both the smokers themselves and other people around them from harm.

It is, however, probably true to say that we want to take rights away from trans people, in the sense that we don't think they should be allowed to use spaces or compete in sports for the opposite sex, which they are currently allowed to do.

They weren't freely allowed to do that there were exceptions that excluded even those with a GRC the problem is/was that those exceptions have been ignored or misrepresented by Lobby Groups such as Stonewall.

It is, however, probably true to say that we want to take rights away from trans people, in the sense that we don't think they should be allowed to use spaces or compete in sports for the opposite sex, which they are currently allowed to do.

But this isn't a human right, and the reason we think it should be taken away is because it never should have been granted in the first place and it has caused harmful consequences.

Giving male trans people the right to compete in women's sports takes away the right of women to a fair single-sex category. So if you believe it is those male trans people's right to play in women's sports you also believe that women shouldn't have the right to a fair single-sex category.

So who is it who wants to take away the rights of others?

Giving male trans people the right to compete in women's sports takes away the right of women to a fair single-sex category. So if you believe it is those male trans people's right to play in women's sports you also believe that women shouldn't have the right to a fair single-sex category.

So who is it who wants to take away the rights of others?

They don't want to take away women's rights. They have already done it.

We are fighting to get our rights back. They are fighting to maintain the status quo.

"You Are ALL Wonderfully & Beautifully Made! AS IS!"

100% agree.

From my point of view if your kid tells you they aren't a ....... you ask questions and you listen. you ask follow up questions, why do you think that, what do you think that means etc.

If you're kid is distressed and telling you that they think that there is something terribly wrong with them the correct answer is not 'you're right but I love you anyway because of what a cool and awesome person I am'

I see the OP has not been back yet.

Of course not. Classic plop and run

The OP was never for a single minute going to come back. A drive-by scolding, I think is the term.

Although personally I think a person who was completely secure in their own choices and beliefs wouldn't feel the need to seek out those who have different views and berate them, but maybe that's just me ...

Can you explain that?

Everything I've seen before your post is respectful of people being gender non-conforming, just rejecting the idea that "personalities" (for want of a better word) are inherently male or female regardless of the physical body in which they exist.

Do you genuinely think it's "transphobic" to believe that men and women have different bodies but much the same type of mind, and the differences in behaviour and experiences we see are mostly to do with how society treats us based on our bodies?

@JBEM4

So come at me. Please tell me how a trans person has personally offended you or negatively impacted your life

Trans people don't negatively impact my life unless they are supporting the political movement to appropriate the name "woman" to mean a state of mind, and through that appropriate the social.and political rights, protections and spaces that were created not for "anyone who happens to bear the name woman", but specifically to give female people the possibility of living safe, happy and self-determined lives within a sexist and patriarchal society.

Anyone, trans or not, who supports the political and social erasure of female people, voices and experiences absolutely impacts my life, and the life of all female people.

FWIW of the trans women I have known, sone lovely individuals and some less so, it is noticeable that none have had any interest in the actuality of what it is to be female in our society. All have dismissed the Real experiences of female people in favour of their own definition of and narratives about "womanhood" instead.

and why a human beings value can't be based on their character and whether they're simply just a good person?

I don't understand your question. Of course a human beings value should be based on their character and whether they're simply just a good person. But what has that got to do with whether someone is recognised as a man or a woman?

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This. This is all it is. This is what it all boils down to.

Whether gender exists or not, there is simply no basis for the insistence that gender identity replaces sex in all the contexts where, hitherto, sex has been deemed relevant.

@ArabeIIaScott 'drive-by scolding' - love it!

Good point.

I would also mention that we don't allow special extra "rights" based on being trans-racial or trans-disabled.

I'm pretty sure people who are actually disabled or from an ethnic minority don't have any extra rights, let alone transabled or transracial.

Sorry but males playing in women's sport is absolutely not a basic human right.

Privileges, not rights.

Dominance, not rights.

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