Controversial but curious.....

[JBEM4]

I'm fully aware I'm putting myself in a position whereby I'm going to be massively offended by some replies to this but I hope that they can at least be respectful.

I'm not sure what the point of my very long essay is but I do hope that I can at least make just one person be more open minded and realise that discrimination of any form is a choice and an unnecessary at that.

Here goes.....

I have a trans son (19). He started his journey aged 13. It was a natural and organic transition and I, as everyone who knows him, expected it.

He's done 3 years of counselling with a clinical psychologist (monthly), has never questioned who he is not even for a second and is finally starting testosterone this month that will (he hopes) give him facial hair, give him a more masculine appearance and deepen his voice. For context, if you met him today you wouldn't know he was trans.

Fortunately FTM individuals don't seem to attract a fraction of the hostility, outrage and offence that MTF people do - why is that?

I do try to understand others opinions but for the life of me can't fathom how/why people feel qualified and entitled enough to be so personally offended, judgemental, ignorant and vocal in their views that the trans community aren't worthy of respect let alone basic human rights.

No one chooses to be trans and those who are brave enough to transition do so because being at peace with themselves and living THEIR best life is more important to them despite the adversity, discrimination and abuse they'll receive from society.

My son is my son. His genitals do not define him. As parents we fight for our kids, for their right to have support, opportunities and advantages in life.. Parents will take on the whole damn system to get an autism diagnosis for their child because as a parent YOU know your child needs the right support and all that the health system can offer so your child can live their life and be the best they can be......

Why are trans kids/adults any different?
I've been accused of abusing my child, grooming my child, been told that he needs psychiatric help, he'll grow out of it, and that he doesn't have the right to live his life as he needs to.

These are comments that no one is brave enough to say to my face.

Not understanding what it is to be trans, not having experiences, contact or relationships with someone who's trans does not afford anyone the right to decide/debate on their existence. Being so absolute in opposition/denial/disgust of how another person lives their life while having zero impact on anyone else's.

So come at me. Please tell me how a trans person has personally offended you or negatively impacted your life and why a human beings value can't be based on their character and whether they're simply just a good person?

*not "agreeing" with being trans isn't a valid excuse.....

He's done 3 years of counselling with a clinical psychologist (monthly), has never questioned who he is not even for a second and is finally starting testosterone this month that will (he hopes) give him facial hair, give him a more masculine appearance and deepen his voice. For context, if you met him today you wouldn't know he was trans.

This is worrying. The point of counselling would be to question and explore. We cannot know at 13 who we will be at 25 or 35 or older. There are many many detransistioners who regret their facial hair, the loss of their natural voice, and realise there was no need to make permanent changes to their perfectly well functioning bodies to be who they are and to dress how they like. Most people WOULD know by the way. Most people would be polite. But however hard we are pushed to not make a judgement, the truth is we all make judgements on one another all the time. Why put your child through that. You do not have their back in my opinion.

Perhaps you should ask yourself some of the hard questions before it is too late. Be the adult. Your child is still a child.

I can't spew hate at someone no matter how much you would like that to happen with such a provoking opening.

I feel deeply sorry for your child. Not believing in gender as anything more than a social construct I see what is happening to them as a tragedy to be honest. You saying you knew they would transition worries me they are a vulnerable child trying to please a parent. I worry this is a lesbian not seen as acceptable as a lesbian. Unless your son is now gay? Either way I feel a lot of FtM transitioners are trying to transition away from misogyny and the patriarchy.

If you are uk then I would argue your child taking up 3 years of psychological care only to be further harmed hurts other children because that level of support isn't available for kids with other mental health issues. The services are overstretched as it is. That's before we look at how accepting gender transition breaks down female boundaries and safety by normalising it for violent predators. If men can now be women and women can now be men then how are we to know if workforce stats are hiding inequality or not? The stats become useless sadly.

I hope your child finds happiness and doesn't live to regret their decision to be enthralled to medical for life.

Why anyone would be a cheerleader for their healthy child becoming a medical patient for life is beyond me.

Living on the kiddy cancer ward for a year really hammers home just how lucky kids born into healthy bodies are. Throwing that good health away for the sake of a chasing after an impossible dream (changing sex) is proper bonkers.

Not understanding what it is to be trans, not having experiences, contact or relationships with someone who's trans does not afford anyone the right to decide/debate on their existence.

And you don't have the right to decide who is and is not allowed to enter this discussion.

@JBEM4 I was a transman who was abused by a transwoman, gaslit, called a misogynist, bleated at by my social group (and their VERY extended, VERY terminally online support network) that I was a liar, too ugly for anyone to want to hurt that way, and to kill myself. -I didn't take T bc my friends, most of whom were, like myself, traumatized and mentally ill traditionally gender non-conforming girls, had their sex organs prolapse (ever put someone's vagina back into their body in a bathtub? I have!), most of them lost one if not both nipples, and all of them have dangerously high cholesterol, bone density loss, and pain in their vocal cords that won't go away, even for the ones who stopped dosing out of medical necessity. The oldest one is barely in their 40s, and all throughout, we get the pleasure of being doxed and hurt for not centering tw in our feminism, even when it's PAINFULLY, AGONIZINGLY apparent that they've been socialized as male and have zero problem treating you the way any other abusive male would, bc the entire movement's been overtaken by the notion that any form of gatekeeping is wrong and literally kills people.-Are there any other issues you feel guilty about thinking of? Or having doubts about? Do you ever feel an inkling of a suspicion that you're not disagreeing with this the way you might any other issue close to your heart?-I'm sure you're thinking I'm a liar and a nazi and a literal murderer right now, but I don't care. I hope my words brand themselves into your heart and you can't think for the volume of them in your mind if you ever even think about accusing women who've been hurt by this movement of being liars or nazis. It's disgusting the amount of lying going on, capitulation from the medical community despite those of us who've walked the walk begging for unbiased research, and cries of actual genocide. My ancestors no longer have a written language, and much of our culture was bulldozed off the face of the planet as short a time ago as my grandfather's lifetime. That is genocide, not this constant demanding of other people's rights. -If you want to be sensitive to everyone in the 'queer' (which is a slur btw) community, read up about how people on 8chan were groomed by perverts, or about pink pilling. Read about sissy fetishism. It's right there in their own spaces, the most carefully curated sub-reddits, twitter accounts, and even in-person places like bookstores and community centers. Read 'You Told Me You Were Different: An Anthology of Harm'.

Ugh god I hate how both phone and browser versions kill paragraphs.

So sorry you’ve been through all that red bird. The word toxic is so overused, but it really seems to describe the experiences you and your friends seem to have had. I hope as many of you as possible find ways to your own peace as you deal with the fall out.

Not understanding what it is to be trans, not having experiences, contact or relationships with someone who's trans does not afford anyone the right to decide/debate on their existence.

Hmm, not understanding what it is to be the opposite sex to the one you are does not give anyone the right to decide/debate what the opposite sex is, to dictate how the opposite sex should name themselves, view themselves, behave or believe.

And yet that is exactly what the GI/Trans agenda does.

Redbird

Fortunately FTM individuals don't seem to attract a fraction of the hostility, outrage and offence that MTF people do - why is that?

Jesus Christ on a bike. You must either be dim or have been living under a rock.

What could possibly be different about M to F people I wonder???

Redbird 💐

I hope your excellent post can be archived if this thread is zapped (I suspect it might be).

JBEM4 · Today 05:13

I have a trans son (19). He started his journey aged 13. It was a natural and organic transition and I, as everyone who knows him, expected it.

He's done 3 years of counselling with a clinical psychologist (monthly), has never questioned who he is not even for a second and is finally starting testosterone this month that will (he hopes) give him facial hair, give him a more masculine appearance and deepen his voice. For context, if you met him today you wouldn't know he was trans.
This is the process I feel people need to go through, the opportunity to exploring their true feelings to establish they have gender dysphoria. Yes it’s lengthy but necessary. As part of this process they need to accept that they cannot change their sex, but can present themselves as they wish.

Whilst I would like it to be a higher age, I accept 18 makes a person am adult and they are free to choose medical interventions be they hormones and/or surgery. However, the process should include factual information about the impact of hormones and surgery, short and long term, and what is and is not possible.

Whilst some people can pass, many cannot.

Fortunately FTM individuals don't seem to attract a fraction of the hostility, outrage and offence that MTF people do - why is that?
MtF people sadly include people who do not have gender dysphoria but do have paraphilia’s such as autogynephillia (AGP), voyeurism, exhibitionism etc. This, coupled with the fact that 98% of rapists and sexual offenders are male mean that, unlike FtM people, as a cohort they pose a higher risk to women and girls.

This cohort of transwomen are adversely impacting people with gender dysphoria as well as women and girls. They are pushing to enter femalevsingle sex spaces and sport.

I do try to understand others opinions but for the life of me can't fathom how/why people feel qualified and entitled enough to be so personally offended, judgemental, ignorant and vocal in their views that the trans community aren't worthy of respect let alone basic human rights.
Everyone should be treated with dignity and respect. The issue is the cohort of MtF people with paraphillia’s are not treating women and girls with dignity and respect. They do this by demanding entry to female single sex spaces and refusing to even discuss the compromise of third spaces. For example c18% of male prisoners are rapists, sex offenders etc. c50%+ of Transwomen prisoners are rapists, sex offenders etc. Personally I don’t believe all the Transwomen in prison have gender dysphoria, I think they have paraphillia’s, want easy access to female victims (prisoners) or want a safer place to serve their sentence. This is why they push to be placed in a female prison, female single sex spaces, female sport etc.

WRT basic human rights, please could you be more specific about which human rights your child is being denied. I am not aware of any.

No one chooses to be trans and those who are brave enough to transition do so because being at peace with themselves and living THEIR best life is more important to them despite the adversity, discrimination and abuse they'll receive from society.

I disagree, people with paraphillia’s are choosing. People with gender dysphoria are different.

My son is my son. His genitals do not define him. As parents we fight for our kids, for their right to have support, opportunities and advantages in life.. Parents will take on the whole damn system to get an autism diagnosis for their child because as a parent YOU know your child needs the right support and all that the health system can offer so your child can live their life and be the best they can be......
Why are trans kids/adults any different?
People with gender dysphoria are no different and should receive the appropriate support, opportunities etc. but this does not include lying to them that they can change their sex. This does not include inappropriate medical interventions for children.

As I said, counselling and, as adults, providing factual scientific information about the short and long term impacts of medication and surgery including failure rates should be an integral part of the health care approach.

The healthcare system is poor, not just for trans people, but for a whole range of things including, anorexia, depression, self harming, anxiety, knees and hips etc. Don’t mistake the difficulties your child has had accessing healthcare being because they are trans rather than the NHS is overloaded and at breaking point.

Please bear in mind not all trans people seek medical interventions as they do not want medication or surgery they just chose to present differently.

I've been accused of abusing my child, grooming my child, been told that he needs psychiatric help, he'll grow out of it, and that he doesn't have the right to live his life as he needs to. These are comments that no one is brave enough to say to my face.
It is very common for people to be brave from behind a keyboard.

Not understanding what it is to be trans, not having experiences, contact or relationships with someone who's trans does not afford anyone the right to decide/debate on their existence. Being so absolute in opposition/denial/disgust of how another person lives their life while having zero impact on anyone else's.
How do you define “trans”? What evidence do you have that everyone who defines themselves as trans has had zero impact on anyone else. Karen White attacked female prisoners they were impacted.

Being part of a free society gives us the right to debate and have a say in the laws of our country. It also allows professionals e.g. doctors, to debate and decide the right treatment, approach etc.

How we debate is a different argument and I agree that the current debate is toxic on both sides. There are rational voices but they are being drowned out.

So come at me. Please tell me how a trans person has personally offended you or negatively impacted your life and why a human beings value can't be based on their character and whether they're simply just a good person?
In order for me to answer this you need to define “trans”. Do you really see your child in the same trans category as Karen White, Isla Bryson, the 50% of transwomen prisoners who are sex offenders?
Have you considered people with gender dysphoria and their families should be vocal in stating that trans people with paraphillia’s do not speak for them?

*not "agreeing" with being trans isn't a valid excuse.....
I don’t think of it as agreeing or disagreeing. I believe everyone should be treated with dignity and respect, that you cannot change your sex, women and girls need single sex spaces and sports. I also believe how people choose to present themselves is a personal choice and provided they treat me with dignity and respect I will do the same.

@Redbird87 well said.

@Redbird87 your post really hit home with me. Your words are so important.

@Redbird87 thank you for speaking. I'm sorry this is the world and what you have lived.

@Redbird87 I read your post and felt so fucking angry for you. FFS what are we doing as a society?

@Redbird87 such a powerful post but I fear it won't even make a dent with people like the OP. For you💐

for you Redbird.

I didn’t know your story and I am horrified to hear of it.

I join you though in wanting unbiased medical research and support. I think also that the side effects of Testosterone need to be discussed as many places as possible, as well as puberty blockers.

I recently read a post saying the the negative and life shortening side effects of Testosterone on female bodies was acceptable so that person can live their ‘trans’ life. Plus the assurance from that poster that of course, any life shortening or life limiting aspect would be made clear to the patient. Yet we know that it has not been made clear to many female transitioners.

And that discussing the extreme negative side effects, the prolapses, the atrophy, the pain from clitoral enlargement, the permanent bladder issues, the impact on other organs and that is just testosterone not covering the permanent pain and scarring issues with double mastectomy, on the area and the extended area too. Including range of movement.

So little of this is actually discussed in the glamourisation of these treatments. It is so hugely concerning.

I hope though that you are receiving the mental health support that you need.

Redbird

You and other posters seem to have little understanding of this board and the people who post on it , or the feminist perspective.

It is you who sounds entrenched in your beliefs.

I question what type of mental health support your child has had tough. Because “has never questioned who he is not even for a second” sounds not very healthy to me.

The thing that I personally cannot forget when discussing this topic is the stories of detransitioners.

Though some did not get appropriate levels of support to talk through their feelings before deciding to transition, many like your child did.

At the time of starting medical transition every single one of them was sure they were making the right choice.

Yet...ultimately is wasn't and years later the impact of the decision to transition will come at a life long cost, even if they stop medication.

What detransitioners demonstrate quite clearly is that we have absolutely no way to foretell for which people medical transition will be the best outcome.

No idea at all.

Medical gender re-assignment is a lottery, pure and simple, but one where even if you win, you lose (serious side effects, high risk of complications etc) and if you do lose, you have no chance to re-coup your losses, ever.

I don't hate your child, I worry for them and thousands like them. I protest against gender ideology because I think the harm being done to a generation of children is an absolute scandal.

It is not possible to change sex. Lying to children that you can is an appalling thing to do.

To add to Redbird's account of the suffering brought about by 'transitioning' here is a link to a number of other female de-trans stories:

https://post-trans.com

It's all sounds so self indulgent @JBEM4

And then you meet Redbird and it was actually self harming all along.

@Premiumbondbaby I am not criticising what you wrote. But this paragraph stands out for me in a way worth commenting.

Whilst I would like it to be a higher age, I accept 18 makes a person am adult and they are free to choose medical interventions be they hormones and/or surgery. However, the process should include factual information about the impact of hormones and surgery, short and long term, and what is and is not possible.

It is the "choice" aspect, which over the course of my lifetime has changed, from treating illness, to opting for treatment for non-illnesses. Such things as cosmetic surgeries, and preventative surgeries. I do make a personal judgement on these things (because I am a thoughtful person capable of judgement) but will not pass comment on that here, except to say that the medical industry, became about profit rather than treating illness at some point. I guess it was slow creep.

In the city I live in, I was horrified on approaching the hospital recently for the first time in a long while to find it had grown into a mini village all of its own. The medical research industry is huge, massive, and self perpetuating. I wish this were acknowledged more and questioned more by all of us.

Apologies if I've gone off at a tangent. But maybe the young wanting particularly to kick against the establishment, might direct their intelligences that way!