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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Controversial but curious.....

220 replies

JBEM4 · 07/05/2023 05:13

I'm fully aware I'm putting myself in a position whereby I'm going to be massively offended by some replies to this but I hope that they can at least be respectful.

I'm not sure what the point of my very long essay is but I do hope that I can at least make just one person be more open minded and realise that discrimination of any form is a choice and an unnecessary at that.

Here goes.....

I have a trans son (19). He started his journey aged 13. It was a natural and organic transition and I, as everyone who knows him, expected it.

He's done 3 years of counselling with a clinical psychologist (monthly), has never questioned who he is not even for a second and is finally starting testosterone this month that will (he hopes) give him facial hair, give him a more masculine appearance and deepen his voice. For context, if you met him today you wouldn't know he was trans.

Fortunately FTM individuals don't seem to attract a fraction of the hostility, outrage and offence that MTF people do - why is that?

I do try to understand others opinions but for the life of me can't fathom how/why people feel qualified and entitled enough to be so personally offended, judgemental, ignorant and vocal in their views that the trans community aren't worthy of respect let alone basic human rights.

No one chooses to be trans and those who are brave enough to transition do so because being at peace with themselves and living THEIR best life is more important to them despite the adversity, discrimination and abuse they'll receive from society.

My son is my son. His genitals do not define him. As parents we fight for our kids, for their right to have support, opportunities and advantages in life.. Parents will take on the whole damn system to get an autism diagnosis for their child because as a parent YOU know your child needs the right support and all that the health system can offer so your child can live their life and be the best they can be......

Why are trans kids/adults any different?
I've been accused of abusing my child, grooming my child, been told that he needs psychiatric help, he'll grow out of it, and that he doesn't have the right to live his life as he needs to.

These are comments that no one is brave enough to say to my face.

Not understanding what it is to be trans, not having experiences, contact or relationships with someone who's trans does not afford anyone the right to decide/debate on their existence. Being so absolute in opposition/denial/disgust of how another person lives their life while having zero impact on anyone else's.

So come at me. Please tell me how a trans person has personally offended you or negatively impacted your life and why a human beings value can't be based on their character and whether they're simply just a good person?

*not "agreeing" with being trans isn't a valid excuse.....

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
ArabeIIaScott · 08/05/2023 09:42

Helleofabore · 08/05/2023 08:45

I must thank Fempire though. They reminded me I hadn’t seen the video of the recent meeting.

so far I have seen (not in any order)

An 11 year old talking about how neither girls nor boys at her school wanting to use the gender neutral toilets and how both sexes are avoiding them. And her petition to get them changed back.

A wonderful poem to Kier Starmer about why that woman will not vote for him.

A discussion piece about an awesome woman from the USA who wrote a hugely insightful quote about how there will come a time when it is will be the anti-fascists that will be the fascists. How true that is! So a discussion on the authoritarianism and totalitarianism of the protests silencing women.

A socialist Austrian woman who is worried about self ID from what she has seen in Germany and how she has started to discuss her concerns within her socialist democrat party and government.

A traumatic account of rape by a very brave and very calm survivor who explained why she wants her spaces to be maintained as single sex.

The remarkable woman who is working with her daughter to address her needs in sixth form for single sex toilets after they were changed to gender neutral. And who read an email from her MP (an ex magistrate with a focus on justice for domestic abuse) about the current changes to the EA to tighten the language for better protection of women and girls.

The woman who spoke about lesbian visibility and how same sex attracted women and men felt that the TQ ++ don’t work with the political needs of the LGB.

The young woman who spoke about ageism and misogyny, who also spoke about how Dylan Mulvaney’s content about ‘girlhood’ is in no way recognisable as womanhood in her reality as a young woman.

And don’t forget the great lyrics of Aja.

Plus plenty of other women speaking.

How amazing were those women! Many of which haven’t spoken at events before. I didn’t see any ‘prancing’ either (how much do you have to hate someone to use that language?).

Probably the same amount of hatred of women who disagree to evoke using this language too. ”A group of people sitting around all parroting the same messages about hating one group and how this will solve all their problems”

So I saw a diverse group of women speaking about very different topics. And rather than expecting ‘parroting’ messages solving their problems, they are out there telling us what they are doing themselves! And inviting women to add to their efforts.

How dare you dismiss their own campaigns and their own efforts that they report back with updates on!

Fuck. The ignorant disdain dripping from writing :

A group of people sitting around all parroting the same messages about hating one group and how this will solve all their problems, whilst doing a call and response led by one person prancing around the middle plugging her merch sounds like indoctrination to me.

It is a sure sign only of an entrenched prejudice either about women discussing these issues, or the people organising them. It comes across as misogyny though because it seems aimed at women in general out there working to find solutions for their needs. So dismissive. So derisive.

100%, Helle. Thanks for the precis of the women speaking. I'm always amazed by the courage and integrity of the women who stand up and speak, despite the derision, attacks, smears and heckles.

ZeldaFighter · 08/05/2023 09:52

I'm so sorry to read what you've been through. I hope you are at a better place in your life now and have found some peace x

ZeldaFighter · 08/05/2023 09:53

@Redbird87 that was for you

NotHavingIt · 08/05/2023 10:10

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

That's how we came up with single sex spaces in the first place. It is a basic safeguarding measure which isn't in need of fixing.

If everyone understands what sex means then there is not an issue and it does not need to be policed. It is only when the social contract breaks down that poolicing is then required.

The obvious solution is not to mess with something that is functional but to campaign for third spaces and facilities. You don't achieve liberation for one group by infringing on the rights and dignity of another.

Gusabbey · 08/05/2023 14:17

Actually, I was attacked by a transwoman in a female only youth hostel dormitory. It was a single sex dorm and them being there was against the youth hostel's rules. They attacked me for no reason (okay, I turned the light on) in the full knowledge that they could do so with no comeback because of their greater physical strength. I had previously unknowingly changed into nightwear in front of them. The police later told me that they had also exposed themselves to a girl in a female public toilet.

Daisysdandy · 08/05/2023 14:59

why a human beings value can't be based on their character and whether they're simply just a good person?

Lol, even you don't believe this which is why you are supporting your daughters transition to physically alter her body.

NancyDrawed · 08/05/2023 15:53

Mermaidparades · 07/05/2023 05:32

I wonder do the people who hate on trans people actually know a trans person in real life. I do. I have seen the sadness they carried (until they realised their truth), how they were always different to the other kids, how they fought and won against demons many will hopefully never know. @JBEM4 your son will never forget that you have been his warrior, his safe space and above all, your loving heart has accepted him for exactly who he is. I wish you both the absolute best. Much love xx

Mermaidparades: I have seen the sadness they carried (until they realised their truth), how they were always different to the other kids, how they fought and won against demons many will hopefully never know.

The phrase 'their/my/your truth' doesn't really make sense to me. There is 'the truth' (fact) and there is 'not the truth' (fiction).

I accept that there are some people for whom the fact of their biology is so distressing to them that they would rather live as the fiction of not being that sex in whatever way feels comfortable to them. I can make a decision whether to indulge that person in their fiction at the time I interact with them.

But when people say that men who want us to pretend they are really women (whether their motivation for this is fetish or dysmorphia) have been using our spaces without us noticing for years, I think they are kidding themselves.

My most recent interaction with a TW was in a clothing shop, where when it was my turn to pay, the member of staff available was clearly male, but his name badge said a feminine name and he was wearing a dress. I bought my dress, he folded it up, I said thank you and that was that. He may well have chalked that up as a 'I totally pass as a woman' interaction. He doesn't and in fact if I had gone to any of the female staff members, I would have made a comment as to not feeling comfortable in the mixed sex changing rooms so hadn't tried the dress on, but didn't - thereby indulging him in his fiction at that moment as mentioned above.

Delphinium20 · 08/05/2023 16:53

Helleofabore · 08/05/2023 08:45

I must thank Fempire though. They reminded me I hadn’t seen the video of the recent meeting.

so far I have seen (not in any order)

An 11 year old talking about how neither girls nor boys at her school wanting to use the gender neutral toilets and how both sexes are avoiding them. And her petition to get them changed back.

A wonderful poem to Kier Starmer about why that woman will not vote for him.

A discussion piece about an awesome woman from the USA who wrote a hugely insightful quote about how there will come a time when it is will be the anti-fascists that will be the fascists. How true that is! So a discussion on the authoritarianism and totalitarianism of the protests silencing women.

A socialist Austrian woman who is worried about self ID from what she has seen in Germany and how she has started to discuss her concerns within her socialist democrat party and government.

A traumatic account of rape by a very brave and very calm survivor who explained why she wants her spaces to be maintained as single sex.

The remarkable woman who is working with her daughter to address her needs in sixth form for single sex toilets after they were changed to gender neutral. And who read an email from her MP (an ex magistrate with a focus on justice for domestic abuse) about the current changes to the EA to tighten the language for better protection of women and girls.

The woman who spoke about lesbian visibility and how same sex attracted women and men felt that the TQ ++ don’t work with the political needs of the LGB.

The young woman who spoke about ageism and misogyny, who also spoke about how Dylan Mulvaney’s content about ‘girlhood’ is in no way recognisable as womanhood in her reality as a young woman.

And don’t forget the great lyrics of Aja.

Plus plenty of other women speaking.

How amazing were those women! Many of which haven’t spoken at events before. I didn’t see any ‘prancing’ either (how much do you have to hate someone to use that language?).

Probably the same amount of hatred of women who disagree to evoke using this language too. ”A group of people sitting around all parroting the same messages about hating one group and how this will solve all their problems”

So I saw a diverse group of women speaking about very different topics. And rather than expecting ‘parroting’ messages solving their problems, they are out there telling us what they are doing themselves! And inviting women to add to their efforts.

How dare you dismiss their own campaigns and their own efforts that they report back with updates on!

Fuck. The ignorant disdain dripping from writing :

A group of people sitting around all parroting the same messages about hating one group and how this will solve all their problems, whilst doing a call and response led by one person prancing around the middle plugging her merch sounds like indoctrination to me.

It is a sure sign only of an entrenched prejudice either about women discussing these issues, or the people organising them. It comes across as misogyny though because it seems aimed at women in general out there working to find solutions for their needs. So dismissive. So derisive.

Thank you, hell! Wonderful list. Many I've not heard about.

The German Austrian you mention reminds me of this article about Slovakia.

4w.pub/transslovakia/

2399fa · 08/05/2023 18:00

Some players from a nearby team joined my sports team after they weren't happy with theirs (unrelated to gender etc). One is a transwoman. They are taller than everyone else, stronger and faster. I no longer get picked to play matches. Ok, maybe you'll say I'd lose my place to a woman one day but why should I stop getting matches so a man can play instead? Men's teams exist in this sport, and this person has played on a men's team before

PinkIce · 08/05/2023 21:37

Late to this, but I had what would now be diagnosed as gender dysphoria as a child.
Even as young as being a toddler I wouldn’t accept anything in my hair.
From 6 I had a boy’s name chosen.
My teen years were awful, I was bullied throughout school, I didn’t fit in.
I didn’t feel comfortable in my own skin until I was pregnant in my mid twenties.
Difference is, I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Gendered toys didn’t really exist. Gendered clothes went so far as school uniform and party clothes, everything else was very similar.
I chose to have short hair, as did many of my female peers. A couple of girls would have bum length hair, but that was not the norm.
Shoulder length hair was considered long.
I had no internet, my preference for my brother’s cast offs, “boy” shoes and pyjamas, were never even noticed, it wasn’t on any radar to be unusual. My favourite fictional character was George from The Famous Five - she had a dog and did adventurous things, unlike Anne, who was the mother of the group.
Whilst gender roles existed, no one batted an eyelid at those who didn’t conform - maybe sadly the boys didn’t have as much freedom in their childhood.

Fast forward to now, anyone with gender dysphoria can access pro-ana-esque support from any number of social media sites, many children have unsupervised and unlimited access to these sites. Many of these so called support sites are run by deeply dodgy adult men.
Gender roles are very much the thing, and if a child wishes to deviate from this it appears to
confuse other children who then assume they are trans.
All girls have very long hair, none have hair cut above their shoulder blades.

I know a few children affected by this, all autistic.
1 is a teenage boy who likes his hair long, and is gay. He was bullied for this at his very naice school until he told them all he was trans, he didn’t make any changes, he didn’t do pronouns, but just declaring he was trans made two things happen - school finally stepped up and put a stop to the bullying, and his classmates started to accept him - why they couldn’t accept him as a long haired gay young man is beyond me. He’s not trans, but was savvy enough to see the situation for what it is and use it to his advantage.

2 has now desisted and has changed schools in order to do so. After years of behavioural issues that went ignored, she decided at 10 that she was actually a boy, and the family could immediately access help. Parents then allowed her to have her hair cut and stop wearing frilly dresses (would not allow this before that point). She displayed some very concerning behaviour at school that should have been flagged up as safeguarding issues, but as she was trans the school (on the advice of GIDS) put it down to “him exploring his sexuality” (at age 12??).

3 is the 9 year old girl whose circumstances point to neglect and being groomed by an older girl into the ways of self harm and gender. She has announced she is a boy. Mother is thrilled as she’d always wanted a boy.

As I said, all autistic.
I think it’s the Tavistock that identified that only 2.25% of transitioning children had no underlying issues - autism, neglect, abuse, mental health problems, backed up by the numbers of looked after girls in Blackpool area transitioning.
So I don’t believe any child can naturally, organically be trans. They can have their preferences, and what should happen is that parents should accept them for who they are, and protect them from intervention that leaves many with life changing side effects, and leads to irreversible surgery.
Someone at some point in the child’s life has agreed that they can change sex. Which is ludicrous.

I was brought up knowing that if I wanted short hair that was fine. If I wanted to play toy farms, that’s what I played with. Although I preferred to be thought of as a boy, the adults in my life sensibly didn’t validate that.

As an adult I have children, I breastfed them all, I’ll maybe have grandchildren one day, I can enjoy sex, there is no pretence that the female medical issues I will go through are anything but female issues. I’m happy enough in my own skin to not care what others think, and to not be triggered by their opinions of me. I was diagnosed autistic as an adult, which gave me an opportunity to look at my past with a sympathetic eye and have an understanding of my teen years, and to breathe a huge sigh of relief that I did them 30+ years ago.

I feel so sorry for this generation of vulnerable teens, particularly the girls. They have been brought up to think that they are hated, not accepted (a lot of this thanks to Mermaids and online communities). They don’t have the freedom to grow from their experiences, to naturally grow out of this predictable self hating stage, or be supported to be whoever they want to be without having to adhere to pathetic gender stereotypes.
I hope one day every single adult who has validated this nonsense, whether they are teachers, doctors, parents, mental health workers, will realise what they’ve done, see what they’ve been complicit in, and issue apologies all Roy d to the huge number of vulnerable girls damaged by this.

MavisMcMinty · 08/05/2023 21:55

@PinkIce - so much of your experience as a child resonates with me, I was a tomboy, dreaded growing breasts and avowed to “cut them off” when they appeared. My best friend and I called ourselves Jim and Bill and beseeched our families to do the same (I don’t recall if they ever complied). Maybe these days I’d’ve been referred to GIDS.

When my best friend moved away, I fell out of her influence and actually LOVED my perfect breasts when they grew, as of course did she. (Loved her own, I mean, not mine.)

Just a phase for us, not a medical condition.

BonfireLady · 08/05/2023 22:45

PinkIce · 08/05/2023 21:37

Late to this, but I had what would now be diagnosed as gender dysphoria as a child.
Even as young as being a toddler I wouldn’t accept anything in my hair.
From 6 I had a boy’s name chosen.
My teen years were awful, I was bullied throughout school, I didn’t fit in.
I didn’t feel comfortable in my own skin until I was pregnant in my mid twenties.
Difference is, I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Gendered toys didn’t really exist. Gendered clothes went so far as school uniform and party clothes, everything else was very similar.
I chose to have short hair, as did many of my female peers. A couple of girls would have bum length hair, but that was not the norm.
Shoulder length hair was considered long.
I had no internet, my preference for my brother’s cast offs, “boy” shoes and pyjamas, were never even noticed, it wasn’t on any radar to be unusual. My favourite fictional character was George from The Famous Five - she had a dog and did adventurous things, unlike Anne, who was the mother of the group.
Whilst gender roles existed, no one batted an eyelid at those who didn’t conform - maybe sadly the boys didn’t have as much freedom in their childhood.

Fast forward to now, anyone with gender dysphoria can access pro-ana-esque support from any number of social media sites, many children have unsupervised and unlimited access to these sites. Many of these so called support sites are run by deeply dodgy adult men.
Gender roles are very much the thing, and if a child wishes to deviate from this it appears to
confuse other children who then assume they are trans.
All girls have very long hair, none have hair cut above their shoulder blades.

I know a few children affected by this, all autistic.
1 is a teenage boy who likes his hair long, and is gay. He was bullied for this at his very naice school until he told them all he was trans, he didn’t make any changes, he didn’t do pronouns, but just declaring he was trans made two things happen - school finally stepped up and put a stop to the bullying, and his classmates started to accept him - why they couldn’t accept him as a long haired gay young man is beyond me. He’s not trans, but was savvy enough to see the situation for what it is and use it to his advantage.

2 has now desisted and has changed schools in order to do so. After years of behavioural issues that went ignored, she decided at 10 that she was actually a boy, and the family could immediately access help. Parents then allowed her to have her hair cut and stop wearing frilly dresses (would not allow this before that point). She displayed some very concerning behaviour at school that should have been flagged up as safeguarding issues, but as she was trans the school (on the advice of GIDS) put it down to “him exploring his sexuality” (at age 12??).

3 is the 9 year old girl whose circumstances point to neglect and being groomed by an older girl into the ways of self harm and gender. She has announced she is a boy. Mother is thrilled as she’d always wanted a boy.

As I said, all autistic.
I think it’s the Tavistock that identified that only 2.25% of transitioning children had no underlying issues - autism, neglect, abuse, mental health problems, backed up by the numbers of looked after girls in Blackpool area transitioning.
So I don’t believe any child can naturally, organically be trans. They can have their preferences, and what should happen is that parents should accept them for who they are, and protect them from intervention that leaves many with life changing side effects, and leads to irreversible surgery.
Someone at some point in the child’s life has agreed that they can change sex. Which is ludicrous.

I was brought up knowing that if I wanted short hair that was fine. If I wanted to play toy farms, that’s what I played with. Although I preferred to be thought of as a boy, the adults in my life sensibly didn’t validate that.

As an adult I have children, I breastfed them all, I’ll maybe have grandchildren one day, I can enjoy sex, there is no pretence that the female medical issues I will go through are anything but female issues. I’m happy enough in my own skin to not care what others think, and to not be triggered by their opinions of me. I was diagnosed autistic as an adult, which gave me an opportunity to look at my past with a sympathetic eye and have an understanding of my teen years, and to breathe a huge sigh of relief that I did them 30+ years ago.

I feel so sorry for this generation of vulnerable teens, particularly the girls. They have been brought up to think that they are hated, not accepted (a lot of this thanks to Mermaids and online communities). They don’t have the freedom to grow from their experiences, to naturally grow out of this predictable self hating stage, or be supported to be whoever they want to be without having to adhere to pathetic gender stereotypes.
I hope one day every single adult who has validated this nonsense, whether they are teachers, doctors, parents, mental health workers, will realise what they’ve done, see what they’ve been complicit in, and issue apologies all Roy d to the huge number of vulnerable girls damaged by this.

I've just popped back across to this thread to see what was going on and if the OP had returned - benefit of the doubt extension after my previous cynicism.. it could have been a busy bank holiday weekend if the OP is in the UK.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your experience. Hopefully the OP will see it too, but if not it's still so valuable for parents of autistic gender questioning girls (and boys) who may be reading this. I'm one such parent and it was by coming across stories like yours and the other examples you have shared that made me keep chipping away at the niggling doubt I had already had that something just didn't seem right. And no, that something wasn't the idea that my daughter would be trans. We had no prejudice or concern on that front and when she first told me she thought she was trans, my husband and I thought it was the same as being lesbian, which would have been no issue or concern at all. It was seeing examples like this, alongside the advice on the NHS website about puberty blockers, that made me look so much more deeply in to everything. I implore the OP to take a look too.

AlisonDonut · 09/05/2023 08:53

Tweet from a detransitioner 2 days ago.

https://twitter.com/IBA_Ministries/status/1655175246486355970

I was 14 years old, strung out, runaway prostitute on wrong-sex hormones with HIV/AIDS. I WAS the suicidal transkid that is always exploited in the debates & discussions about trans-ideology.

I was also a suicidal trans-adult because contrary to popular lies told within the lgbTQia TransQueer Gender Rainbow Cult affirmation, acceptance & transition does NOT take away confusion, depression, angst or suicidal tendencies.

Actually, affirmation, acceptance & transition only made me MORE SUICIDAL, MORE DEPRESSED & MORE CONFUSED. It also caused me a lot of mental & medical health issues that are IRREVERSIBLE and very DAMAGING!

From JUST wrong-sex hormones I was STERILE before the age of 30. From JUST wrong-sex hormones I had Osteoporosis by the time I was 30 years old. From JUST wrong sex hormones I was an EMOTIONAL WRECK!

I had many mental breakdowns, suicide attempts and more rage than any one angry, depressed, confused child should have to endure.

What Is TransQueer Gender Ideology? It Is DEATH! IT IS MENTAL, EMOTIONAL, SPIRITUAL and even PHYSICAL DEATH!

Do NOT Fall Into This Trap.
This Cult Is Preparing The World For Very Dark, Dangerous & Perverted Times.
You Are ALL Wonderfully & Beautifully Made! AS IS!
No Alterations Required or Desired or Needed At All. Ever. Believe That!

You Do NOT Want To Endure One Iota Of What I Did At The Hands Of This Cult!

PorcelinaV · 09/05/2023 09:13

Well hopefully the OP is thoughtfully considering the replies they have received, and has realised that they went off without having much of a clue of what they were talking about.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 09/05/2023 09:17

I'll answer the OP's question.

I've had threats of rape and violence.

A woman with the same name as me has been targeted at her place of of work to get her sacked so I can't use my full name on social media any more.

One of my housebound disabled clients has been targeted with ableist and racist abuse because we were in contact on social media.

My housebound disabled client has the same name as someone who volunteers at an animal sanctuary neither of us have ever even heard of and the sanctuary has been targeted to sack them.

Attempts have been made to hack my social media accounts.

There are too many more incidents to list. I'm an inoffensive vegetarian who has never said anything more than women exist and have rights too and stood my ground. I have never, ever been transphobic which probably goes without saying, we all know what it's like.

I'm not backing down.

MrGHardy · 09/05/2023 09:22

"I do try to understand others opinions but for the life of me can't fathom how/why people feel qualified and entitled enough to be so personally offended, judgemental, ignorant and vocal in their views that the trans community aren't worthy of respect let alone basic human rights."

I think your entire story is made up.

Certainly this paragraph is either a lie or cognitive dissonance. Because if you did actually try to understand the opinions of others, you would know that no one here thinks trans people don't deserve basic human rights.

MargotBamborough · 09/05/2023 09:29

I think everyone here would dearly like to know what human rights the OP thinks trans people don't have, or are at risk of losing.

(Access to spaces and sports for members of the opposite sex cannot be a human right, because human rights are rights that everyone has, and no other group has this right.)

Brefugee · 09/05/2023 09:46

So come at me.

for starters anyone who writes "come at me" isn't posting in good faith, are they?

Please tell me how a trans person has personally offended you or negatively impacted your life and why a human beings value can't be based on their character and whether they're simply just a good person?

Sigh. No.

It is entirely possibly that dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of trans people are perfectly lovely and not shouty, spittle flecked misogynists.

Personally? the only trans people i know IRL are perfectly lovely (both MtF) but one of them is currently drinking the cool aid and despite us having many many conversations over the years about feminism (I am a 2nd waver) and the bollocks that is gender identity, is now changing her opinion on things and called me a transphobe recently although my position has never actually changed. So this is a friendship that I'm putting on a very very low back-burner.

Trans people don't have fewer rights than anyone else. In some respects they have more (eg sports that allow trans women to compete against natal women and possibly also have a trans category, allow natal men to compete in 3 categories where women can compete in one, max two if the men's is actually "open" as some are).

I'm pretty open and tolerant, but what i won't tolerate is being talked over by someone who simply has an opposing opinion, or shouted down by someone who simply has an opposing opinion. I didn't allow that in abortion debates, i don't allow it in political discussions, and i don't allow it when it is TWAW (they are not, i am aware that other people have differing views on this which they are welcome to talk about).

etc etc.

but IMO writing "come at me" is the equivalent of a "but". It negates everything that went before.

PorcelinaV · 09/05/2023 09:50

MrGHardy · 09/05/2023 09:22

"I do try to understand others opinions but for the life of me can't fathom how/why people feel qualified and entitled enough to be so personally offended, judgemental, ignorant and vocal in their views that the trans community aren't worthy of respect let alone basic human rights."

I think your entire story is made up.

Certainly this paragraph is either a lie or cognitive dissonance. Because if you did actually try to understand the opinions of others, you would know that no one here thinks trans people don't deserve basic human rights.

It could be question-begging rhetoric, like the OP thinks it's a "basic human right" for a male to play on a women's sports team if they identify as a woman, and so the GC side is then "denying" their human rights.

But anyone genuinely trying to understand the other side, would probably express themselves in a better way, and/or understand that they have to give an argument for controversial opinions like that.

dimorphism · 09/05/2023 09:52

MargotBamborough · 09/05/2023 09:29

I think everyone here would dearly like to know what human rights the OP thinks trans people don't have, or are at risk of losing.

(Access to spaces and sports for members of the opposite sex cannot be a human right, because human rights are rights that everyone has, and no other group has this right.)

It's a thought terminating mantra which also serves to make trans people feel attacked. Part of the whole belief system is making people feel as if they're being persecuted even when they aren't and that they're being denied 'human rights' even when they aren't.

They also seem to think 'human rights' involves having everyone think exactly the same thing as you but obviously haven't been able to think that through. Or even to consider that they're asking other people to accept what they think without accepting what those other people think which is sort of not seeing them as human with human rights and freedom of belief.

At the heart of it, this ideology wants to control the perceptions of other people, which is never going to work. Frighten and intimidate them into silence, maybe but control their perceptions? Not possible.

dimorphism · 09/05/2023 09:53

I'll also point out that it's not kind or mentally healthy to constantly tell people they're under attack when they're not.

ArabeIIaScott · 09/05/2023 10:06

AlisonDonut · 09/05/2023 08:53

Tweet from a detransitioner 2 days ago.

https://twitter.com/IBA_Ministries/status/1655175246486355970

I was 14 years old, strung out, runaway prostitute on wrong-sex hormones with HIV/AIDS. I WAS the suicidal transkid that is always exploited in the debates & discussions about trans-ideology.

I was also a suicidal trans-adult because contrary to popular lies told within the lgbTQia TransQueer Gender Rainbow Cult affirmation, acceptance & transition does NOT take away confusion, depression, angst or suicidal tendencies.

Actually, affirmation, acceptance & transition only made me MORE SUICIDAL, MORE DEPRESSED & MORE CONFUSED. It also caused me a lot of mental & medical health issues that are IRREVERSIBLE and very DAMAGING!

From JUST wrong-sex hormones I was STERILE before the age of 30. From JUST wrong-sex hormones I had Osteoporosis by the time I was 30 years old. From JUST wrong sex hormones I was an EMOTIONAL WRECK!

I had many mental breakdowns, suicide attempts and more rage than any one angry, depressed, confused child should have to endure.

What Is TransQueer Gender Ideology? It Is DEATH! IT IS MENTAL, EMOTIONAL, SPIRITUAL and even PHYSICAL DEATH!

Do NOT Fall Into This Trap.
This Cult Is Preparing The World For Very Dark, Dangerous & Perverted Times.
You Are ALL Wonderfully & Beautifully Made! AS IS!
No Alterations Required or Desired or Needed At All. Ever. Believe That!

You Do NOT Want To Endure One Iota Of What I Did At The Hands Of This Cult!

God, that's hard to read. Thanks for sharing it here.

You Are ALL Wonderfully & Beautifully Made! AS IS!
No Alterations Required or Desired or Needed At All. Ever. Believe That!

If only there was more of this message.

bellinisurge · 09/05/2023 10:07

"I'll also point out that it's not kind or mentally healthy to constantly tell people they're under attack when they're not."

This. A million times.

Hagosaurus · 09/05/2023 10:07

I’d add to dimorphism’s point; it’s not kind or mentally healthy to tell your children they can change sex when they can’t.

OP, assuming you’re for real, you need to take a good, hard look at why you aren’t discussing this with your child honestly and using the full range of information available as to the likely outcomes for them? Whose benefit is this for?

Pinkice me too 😊

MargotBamborough · 09/05/2023 10:16

dimorphism · 09/05/2023 09:53

I'll also point out that it's not kind or mentally healthy to constantly tell people they're under attack when they're not.

I once saw a thread on Twitter which unfortunately I failed to bookmark. It appeared to have been written by a genuine trans person.

In this thread they describe living with the belief that trans people are persecuted, that the majority of people hate them and wish they didn't exist, and that they are at much greater risk of being assaulted and murdered.

Then they say that something happened - I can't remember what - to prompt them to go and fact check. I think it must have been someone saying there is no evidence to support any of the above, and the trans person being determined to prove that there was.

So they went on their fact checking mission to find all the data proving that trans people are more at risk than everyone else. And they didn't find any. In fact, they found plenty of data suggesting that in the vast majority of the western world trans people are accepted and that they are not at any greater risk of assault or murder, or even suicide, than the rest of the population.

And then they got angry about the fact that they'd been led to believe these things and they had wasted so much of their life living in fear of these essentially non existent threats.

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