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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Man threatened with Prevent for questioning transgender book at nephew's school.

184 replies

aweegc · 05/05/2023 06:50

Prevent, for anybody who doesn't know, is the government's counterterrorism programme targeting radicalised/extremist Muslims. Schools are obliged to report cases of extremism or radicalisation to it, similar to reporting safeguarding concerns.

I have to say that I'd thought about Prevent being used for some transactivists, it had never occurred to me that Muslims would be silenced this way. Although, now I hear this, it is too obvious a tactic to have overlooked and it's utterly despicable.

So, I just came across this on Instagram. A British Muslim man approached his nephew's school on behalf of his sister, because she was really unhappy with her son bringing home a "book promoting transgender lifestyle". He thought it would be an easy discussion where he was mediating between two women (I'm not commenting on that part - separate issue). I've transcribed it for anybody who can't access the video.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CriblPHol5d/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Transcript:

He says to the head teacher, "'My sister's worried about a book that promotes the transgender lifestyle. If you were going give this to the children or put this in the library, why weren't parents consulted.?' She just went on the offense....When I started to speak to this lady, walahi [I swear to God], it was just a click. When I started to speak she said,
'The way you're talking, we'd have to refer you to Prevent'.
I said, 'What's Prevent?', because at the time I had no understanding.
She goes, "The way you're speaking is very extreme."
I said, "I haven't said anting to you extreme. All I've said is that we don't feel comfortable with our young, innocent nephew being sent home with a book called Princess Boy without the consultation of the parents.'
She goes, 'Well I don't care, it's the Equality Act.'
So my question to her was, 'Well where's my equality then? If it's the Equality Act, and we live in a secular society so there's a full range, a marketplaces of views and everyone must be respected, regardless of how we conflict with one another.. She wasn't having it.'"

OP posts:
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Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 22/05/2023 17:20

@izimbra
No threat, no, not at all , no , no ,no

Man threatened with Prevent for questioning transgender book at nephew's school.
Man threatened with Prevent for questioning transgender book at nephew's school.
HideTheCroissants · 22/05/2023 17:30

Prescottdanni123 · 05/05/2023 09:07

@Lamelie

Prevent is used to tackle all kinds of terrorism such as far right groups and homophobic groups for example. Not just Muslims.

^this

I do prevent training and in my area our biggest “problem area” is actually white supremacist type radicalisation. It definitely has ever been anti Muslim (or anti ANY faith or culture) in my experience.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/05/2023 18:04

It was set up to deal primarily with the Islamic terrorist threat. It's not politically correct to acknowledge that now, I guess.

Bosky · 23/05/2023 00:17

Perhaps the Prevent training that people are currently receiving does not mention the reason that it was set up in the first place? Or gives incorrect information about its origins?

You tried to point people to correct information with your link. I'll try some others.

Analysis: The Prevent strategy and its problems
2014

Preventing Violent Extremism - also known as Prevent - has been a government priority for a decade.

But despite millions of pounds, initiative after initiative, the strategy remains deeply controversial, virtually impossible to fully assess and, if its critics are right, fatally compromised and incapable of achieving its goals.

Prevent is one of the four Ps that make up the government's post 9/11 counter-terrorism strategy, known as Contest: Prepare for attacks, Protect the public, Pursue the attackers and Prevent their radicalisation in the first place.

In the early days of Prevent, Whitehall was divided over what Prevent meant: was it purely about al-Qaeda-inspired extremism or was it about other groups as well?

Was it about tackling violence or the underlying ideology?

How could officials work out who they needed to target to get results?

Impossible to assess

Ministers threw cash at Prevent - particularly in the wake of the 2005 London suicide bombings.

In the six years after those attacks, almost £80m was spent on 1,000 schemes across 94 local authorities.

Security officials wanted schemes to prevent young people from following al-Qaeda's world view.

But other officials saw it as a means of funding pet projects on community cohesion.

Many groups that received funding knew what they were doing - focusing on theology and countering the politics of extremism.

But others had no idea about radicalisation at all - and some believed it was a myth because they had no expert experience and were suspicious of the message.

Full article:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28939555

3 The Prevent Strategy and Duty
2016

Background

  1. The Prevent Strategy has a long history. Relevant initiatives can be traced back as far as 2002, when it was recognised that a long-term effort would be needed to prevent another generation falling prey to violent extremism of the (then Al-Qa’ida) ideology.15

  2. The question became more pressing after the terrorist attacks in London in July 2005, and this resulted in “a more explicit acknowledgment of ‘neighbour terrorism’—that the terrorist threat was internal rather than external and required engagement with, and the energising of, affected communities at levels other than security and policing.”16 A formal Prevent Strategy was initiated by the Labour Government, following the London bombings of 2005. It forms part of the CONTEST counter-terrorism strategy and has seen several iterations since.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt201617/jtselect/jtrights/105/10506.htm

The Prevent strategy and the UK ‘war on terror’: embedding infrastructures of surveillance in Muslim communities
2018

Abstract

The Prevent policy was introduced in the UK in 2003 as part of an overall post 9/11 counter-terrorism approach (CONTEST), with the aim of preventing the radicalisation of individuals to terrorism. In 2015, the Prevent policy became a legal duty for public sector institutions, and as such, its reach has extended much deeper into society. This article, based on ongoing ethnographic fieldwork—including interviews, focus groups and participant observations—seeks to uncover and analyse the function of surveillance at the heart of the Prevent strategy. Contrary to official denials, surveillance forms an essential feature of the Prevent strategy. It regards radicalisation as part of an overall conveyor belt to terrorism, and thus attempts to control the future by acting in the present. The article shows how the framing of the terror threat in the ‘war on terror’, as an ‘Islamic threat’, has afforded a surveillance infrastructure, embedded into Muslim communities, which has securitised relations with local authorities. Its intelligence products, as well as the affective consequences of surveillance, have served to contain and direct Muslim political agency. Such an analysis uncovers the practice of Islamophobia at the heart of the Prevent strategy, which accounts for its surveillance tendencies.

Full article:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-017-0061-9

Note: These links are to clarify why Prevent was first set up, which is what is in dispute, not to comment on current stats about domestic terrorism.

The Prevent strategy and the UK ‘war on terror’: embedding infrastructures of surveillance in Muslim communities - Humanities and Social Sciences Communications

The Prevent policy was introduced in the UK in 2003 as part of an overall post 9/11 counter-terrorism approach (CONTEST), with the aim of preventing the radicalisation of individuals to terrorism. In 2015, the Prevent policy became a legal duty for pub...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-017-0061-9

ScrollingLeaves · 23/05/2023 07:39

Thank you for that information about Prevent, Bosky.

Shelefttheweb · 23/05/2023 07:52

The fact that several posters think Prevent is all about the right wing and think they are the biggest threat of terrorism shows the independent review was correct in identifying ideological drift within the scheme away from its purpose.

AlisonDonut · 23/05/2023 09:15

izimbra · 22/05/2023 14:53

"The question still stands.

You can't say we are 'bad thing' for knowing the difference between men and women, but allowing yourself and your daughter that priviledge.

Unless you are being completely disingenuous of course."

Everyone knows that trans women are people who are born biologically male. I accept that someone who was born male may not identify emotionally or psychologically as a man and be happier presenting as a woman and thinking of themselves as a woman. Of having hormone treatment and surgery that changes the way their body and mind works to be what they feel is a truer reflection of who they feel they are. Because human beings are complex and that sometimes - like with religion - the things we need to believe in order to live happy and fulfilled lives in this world and to feel fully ourselves, are rooted in the mind and heart and not in physics and materiality. I love that we live in a world where we're allowed to do this, and I don't understand why people like you are so twisted up over a very, very tiny number of people wanting to live their lives in this way.

I'm watching what's going on in Florida and thinking that there are people on this thread that want us to do the same in the UK. It's chilling.

Still not answered the question.

How is it ok for you and your daughter to know that a woman is a woman, and not be called 'transphobic' for saying it. But we are 'transphobic' or 'people like you - twisted up' for knowing a man isn't and can never be a woman?

People like you are:
Allowing children to be put onto dangerous drugs that will completely change their lives
Allowing rapists into women's prisons
Allowing women and girls to lose all their sports to men who decided yesterday they were 'women'
Allow men to get naked in front of women, girls and children with visible erections and leave them powerless to do anything about it.

I'd be a 'people like me' any day of the week rather than 'people like you' who pander to men's fetishes and encourage girls into self harm.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 23/05/2023 10:04

Everyone knows that trans women are people who are born biologically male.

Not everyone. Yes, some people such as yourself do think that's what "trans woman" means. Political activists purposely split the old word "transwoman" into two words so as to look more like just another kind of woman - like "tall woman" or "Christian woman" - as if the "trans" was an adjectiive about women even when it only applied to males. But many other people do still think "trans woman" means someone female who is trans - maybe nonbinary or (in old money) a transman. The opposite of what you think it means. So "trans woman" is pretty much meaningless unless you explain it.

And the same activists didn't want "trans woman" associated with anything male and they wanted to deny that physical sex was lifelong, observable from birth and more significant than gender identity. So they deemed every kind of explanation "transphobic" and invented inaccurate euphemisims like "assigned male at birth" (AFAB) instead.

the things we need to believe in order to live happy and fulfilled lives in this world and to feel fully ourselves, are rooted in the mind and heart and not in physics and materiality.

You reckon? Well here's news for you. Getting the materiality wrong makes life a whole lot worse. You might not feel "fully yourself" with the wrong gender identity but you'll have a lot more trouble feeling "fully yourself" with genital atrophy, no sex drive, no fertility, and a host of physical health problems. Suit yourself though.

Coyoacan · 23/05/2023 15:01

Of having hormone treatment and surgery that changes the way their body and mind works to be what they feel is a truer reflection of who they feel they are

Are you actually happy to see people encouraged to take life-limiting medical interventions? The level of failure in these treatments is mind-boggling.

the things we need to believe in order to live happy and fulfilled lives in this world and to feel fully ourselves, are rooted in the mind and heart and not in physics and materiality

True spirituality is rooted in the real world.

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