Man threatened with Prevent for questioning transgender book at nephew's school.

[aweegc]

Prevent, for anybody who doesn't know, is the government's counterterrorism programme targeting radicalised/extremist Muslims. Schools are obliged to report cases of extremism or radicalisation to it, similar to reporting safeguarding concerns.

I have to say that I'd thought about Prevent being used for some transactivists, it had never occurred to me that Muslims would be silenced this way. Although, now I hear this, it is too obvious a tactic to have overlooked and it's utterly despicable.

So, I just came across this on Instagram. A British Muslim man approached his nephew's school on behalf of his sister, because she was really unhappy with her son bringing home a "book promoting transgender lifestyle". He thought it would be an easy discussion where he was mediating between two women (I'm not commenting on that part - separate issue). I've transcribed it for anybody who can't access the video.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CriblPHol5d/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Transcript:

He says to the head teacher, "'My sister's worried about a book that promotes the transgender lifestyle. If you were going give this to the children or put this in the library, why weren't parents consulted.?' She just went on the offense....When I started to speak to this lady, walahi [I swear to God], it was just a click. When I started to speak she said,
'The way you're talking, we'd have to refer you to Prevent'.
I said, 'What's Prevent?', because at the time I had no understanding.
She goes, "The way you're speaking is very extreme."
I said, "I haven't said anting to you extreme. All I've said is that we don't feel comfortable with our young, innocent nephew being sent home with a book called Princess Boy without the consultation of the parents.'
She goes, 'Well I don't care, it's the Equality Act.'
So my question to her was, 'Well where's my equality then? If it's the Equality Act, and we live in a secular society so there's a full range, a marketplaces of views and everyone must be respected, regardless of how we conflict with one another.. She wasn't having it.'"

Awful way to deal with it that simply escalated the situation instead of quelling it.

Being critical of gender roles is implicit in the EA, that men and women should be treated equally.

Tolerating difference of opinion is hardly "forging alliances with inappropriate bedfellows" is it?

Saying that someone is allowed to hold certain views doesn't make them 'friends' or mean that they are 'forging alliances' with such people.

I am defending his right to freedom of expression and to holding views that are different to my own. I would defend the right of a TRA to express his views to the Head as well.

Oh I see what you mean.

Personally I think these books with boys in princess outfits etc. are politically motivated. There appears to be a battle of children's books going on that reflects the battle on sex and gender in wider society and I don't think this is appropriate (even if I broadly agree with the message in the book). Personally I think there are better ways to teach children that they should not be limited to certain roles because of their sex.

Personally I think these books with boys in princess outfits etc. are politically motivated. There appears to be a battle of children's books going on that reflects the battle on sex and gender in wider society and I don't think this is appropriate (even if I broadly agree with the message in the book). Personally I think there are better ways to teach children that they should not be limited to certain roles because of their sex.

I think they seem politically motivated too. If it were about teaching the children about the EA through their books then there should be similarly beautifully illustrated books about the other protected characteristics and I don’t know that there are. Then the parents should definitely be spoken to about them, be allowed to have an opinion, and have a say in what their child reads.

This book is aimed at someone very young. They should be left alone at that age imo.

Conservative religious people can easily accept and believe that men and women, & lgbt people should be treated equally within the law, have the same rights., & not be discriminated against.

That doesn't mean they can't believe that traditional gender roles are better ways to live and bring up children.

Parents chose how to dress their children, the equality act doesn't say all children can wear whatever they want boys or girls. GC believers may think that is the best approach, other people believe differently.

GC beliefs are opinions about gender. They may agree with conservative religious people that biological sex is real but have differing beliefs about gender roles and bringing up children.

I'm sure GC parents wouldn't want books about girls who love God and love to help mummy cook.

It's one thing to make children aware there are differing ways to live and to accept different families choices, but another to promote certain beliefs as if they are universally agreed as positive things.

Many families don't think boys wearing girls clothes is a positive thing, just because you or a teacher think its fine doesn't make that the right view.

I think they seem politically motivated too. If it were about teaching the children about the EA through their books then there should be similarly beautifully illustrated books about the other protected characteristics and I don’t know that there are.

They will only make sense to those 'in the know'- with the appropriate cultural and political understandings and framings. Others deserve to be able to question and seek understanding and people should not be surprised when some who are outside the 'in the know' group don't know.

I think he is acting in a typically male Muslim way, in talking to the school on behalf of his sister (maybe her husband isn't available to do it?), who may feel uncomfortable talking about this. He is his sister's emissary, which seems entirely reasonable to me (though sexist) and he has a right to to this IMO.

We don't know, of course. His sister might be a 4th generation British citizen and a ball-breaking lawyer or something. But, if she is a recent immigrant, it's easy to underestimate how intimidating it can be to deal with authority in a strange country. Most British people would find it hard to confront a headteacher in France or Germany, because of the language barrier, and those are culturally similar countries to the UK. If you add in all the cultural differences between the UK and SE Asia, I don't find it surprising that she asked her brother to speak for her. It doesn't mean, as some PPs have assumed, that he is controlling or interfering.

I did think that was an important distinction to make too.

I've been trained in Prevent, multiple times in a school setting. It's definitely not just about muslim extremism - it's about all forms of extremism.

Absolutely this.

Not so. As I pointed out earlier, Islamist radicalism is not being reported to Prevent as people are afraid of being called out as racist (usually by the hard left as with the grooming gangs). So it looks like there is bigger threat from the far right which is not the case.

The reporting is a different issue to the following up and actions though.
Unfortunately prevent isn't working

"Not so. As I pointed out earlier, Islamist radicalism is not being reported to Prevent as people are afraid of being called out as racist"

Can you share your sources for this assertion?

"there are people who might be described as 'far left' - often militantly and violently so, and who would very ironically consider themselves as 'liberal' - who for some reason are never included in the groups of extremists that are being watched and prevented."

Do you want to give some examples of this that you're aware of, of where organised leftist groups have been involved in plotting violent action?

'For some reason' - we have a pretty right wing Conservative government and I'd be very surprised if they've ordered security services to ignore organised violence and terrorism by leftist groups for the sake of 'political correctness'. Is this what you're suggesting is happening?

Do you want to give some examples of this that you're aware of, of where organised leftist groups have been involved in plotting violent action?

Increasingly trans activists are calling for violent action against women who campaign for women’s rights / spaces / sports etc. This article (linked) in the Anarchist Federation magazine “Organise” dehumanises women by calling them fascists and then calls for a “militant anti-fascism” in response (which is referring to the techniques used by organisations such as AFA against the BNP) to deal with the problem. It results in the sort of dangerous mob that we saw in NZ as a response to the KJK visit.

https://organisemagazine.org.uk/scratch-a-transphobe-pt-2-how-can-we-respond-opinion/

Prevent is not about Muslims. It is about any radicalisation

”Prevent has a double standard when dealing with the Extreme Right-Wing and Islamism. Prevent takes an expansive approach to the Extreme Right-Wing, capturing a variety of influences that, at times, has been so broad it has included mildly controversial or provocative forms of mainstream, right-wing leaning commentary that have no meaningful connection to terrorism or radicalisation. However, with Islamism, Prevent tends to take a much narrower approach centred around proscribed organisations, ignoring the contribution of non-violent Islamist narratives and networks to terrorism. “

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1134986/Independent_Review_of_Prevent.pdf

At the moment most prevent cases are far right as are most terrorist incidents.

Since this Independent Review of Prevent was commissioned in 2019, six terrorist attacks have blighted our nation. These took place at Fishmongers’ Hall (November 2019), Whitemoor Prison (January 2020), Streatham (February 2020), Reading (June 2020), Southend (October 2021), and Liverpool (November 2021). In addition, shortly before this report was completed, a British citizen held Jewish civilians hostage at a synagogue in Texas (January 2022). All these attacks were Islamist in nature.

Organised leftist groups involved in violence? There was UAF that was bizarrely backed by David Cameron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_Against_Fascism

Is this the review by William Shawcross? The person criticised for being one-sided?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/08/prevent-scheme-failing-to-tackle-non-violent-islamist-extremism-review-says

"Britain’s former top counter-terrorism officer has said parts of the government-backed review of Prevent appear to be driven by a rightwing ideology and are “insulting” to professionals fighting to stop attacks on Britain’s streets.

Thanks for the article @Signalbox it explains the surge of men in black abusing women on the LWS events.

Dangerous indoctrination!

its good to read from the other side, it gives me strength for the resolve to defend women’s rights, so easily brushed aside when there are others wanting to push women out!