Man threatened with Prevent for questioning transgender book at nephew's school.

[aweegc]

Prevent, for anybody who doesn't know, is the government's counterterrorism programme targeting radicalised/extremist Muslims. Schools are obliged to report cases of extremism or radicalisation to it, similar to reporting safeguarding concerns.

I have to say that I'd thought about Prevent being used for some transactivists, it had never occurred to me that Muslims would be silenced this way. Although, now I hear this, it is too obvious a tactic to have overlooked and it's utterly despicable.

So, I just came across this on Instagram. A British Muslim man approached his nephew's school on behalf of his sister, because she was really unhappy with her son bringing home a "book promoting transgender lifestyle". He thought it would be an easy discussion where he was mediating between two women (I'm not commenting on that part - separate issue). I've transcribed it for anybody who can't access the video.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CriblPHol5d/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Transcript:

He says to the head teacher, "'My sister's worried about a book that promotes the transgender lifestyle. If you were going give this to the children or put this in the library, why weren't parents consulted.?' She just went on the offense....When I started to speak to this lady, walahi [I swear to God], it was just a click. When I started to speak she said,
'The way you're talking, we'd have to refer you to Prevent'.
I said, 'What's Prevent?', because at the time I had no understanding.
She goes, "The way you're speaking is very extreme."
I said, "I haven't said anting to you extreme. All I've said is that we don't feel comfortable with our young, innocent nephew being sent home with a book called Princess Boy without the consultation of the parents.'
She goes, 'Well I don't care, it's the Equality Act.'
So my question to her was, 'Well where's my equality then? If it's the Equality Act, and we live in a secular society so there's a full range, a marketplaces of views and everyone must be respected, regardless of how we conflict with one another.. She wasn't having it.'"

And it is very ineffective as people will not report meaning that radical and scary Islamism goes under the radar.

It isnt at all, Ive worked with prevent/made referrals, for a number of different young people, with different ideas and struggles. The support they provided, particularly around belief systems and mental health was very good.

You’re not wrong there. Only yesterday on Twitter someone tweeted about an email being sent to all staff in their school telling them to check any resources they use. The email was basically telling them to use gender neutral terms rather than sex based terms. Many many replies from educators thought this was a positive thing. Some were showing photos of their classroom wall with the ‘genderbred’ posters, and a science teacher was boasting about how she’d gone through all her resources to remove reference to sex and replaced it with things like ‘people who menstruate’ as she thought that was inclusive. She taught in an all girls school!
fortunately, there were definitely 2 sides.

I think its fair to say prevent came about as a response to 9/11 and was initially focused on islamic terrorism but that its remit grew/was widened when the terrorism act was redone.

The training i've done for the last 5 to 10 years has focused on case studies on the far right, environmetal , mens rights activism and running off to join isis.

That's my experience too Bellac. I work with young people who are on the Prevent programme and of those who have been referred in relation to religious ideology, Muslims account for approximately 50%. Recently, we have a spate of young people who hold incel beliefs which are very concerning.

Wehadabetamax · Today 07:01
Prevent targets all forms of radicalisation, it does not target Muslims. Also he isn't a parent of the school, so shouldn't have been involved. Just from this video there is no reason for Prevent to be used.
I would like to hear the other side of the story, because I'm not convinced by this.

The headteacher could have asked him to return with his sister, the child’s parent.

I am not sure what you are implying about Prevent targeting all forms of radicalism. Is it that he is a bigoted Muslim?

I think this thread is highlighting the tensions between liberal and conservative stances and views about suppression of ideas.

Many people who oppose trans activism are conservative (small c) and want to promote traditional (in my view oppressive) gender roles that they see as inextricably linked to sex. These people can be left or right wing, follow any religion or be atheist. What they tend to share is an objection to different lifestyles to those they advocate being shared/ accepted. My take on this is that this is because it's difficult to justify why different/alternative lifestyles present any problem to society.

The GC crew object to TRA on the basis of rejecting ideas about gender. On this basis alone, we tend to be liberal, but again, vote in very different ways and can be religious or atheist. Due to the liberal leanings, we tend not to object to materials/ information being shared about different lifestyles and ways of living - so long as the material is factually correct and doesn't promote mid truths and misunderstanding.

This

PinkFrogss · Today 07:23
Isn’t the princess boy just about gender stereotypes anyway? I think I read a thread about it, and it’s a boy who likes stereotypically girly items, but there’s no mention of how this makes him a girl.

It is about gender stereotypes, you are right, but it pushes it to an extreme as the little boy is always dressed as a princess girl, it isn’t just dressing up, and he is shown as targeted and a bit of a victim in how other children treat him.

It does not also show how everybody sometimes likes things usually associated with the other sex. His father and brother are shown as typical males and we are told the brother likes baseball. He could have been shown with a little girl friend who likes trousers and a tee shirt and baseball, and he might be shown playing baseball with her too. Does he not like sports because he likes to wear a dress?

The underlying message is that the child is different in an extreme way that could make that child grow up thinking they have another gender from their sex if they are also taught this, which seems likely. It is very binary.

One very good point though is that it never calls the little boy ‘she’.

Back to Prevent for a moment. It was quite obviously set up to counter indoctrination into Islamic extremism. As PPs have pointed out, the government had to give it a remit of countering all extremism because it didn't want to be open to accusations of Islamophobia.

An independent review into Prevent earlier this year said:

"Prevent must return to its core mission – countering all those ideologies that can lead people to committing or supporting acts of terrorism. This can only be done if Prevent properly understands the nature of these ideologies and how they attract and suborn individuals. It is correct for Prevent to be increasingly concerned about the growing threat from the Extreme Right. But the facts clearly demonstrate that the most lethal threat in the last 20 years has come from Islamism, and this threat continues."

You can read the review here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1134986/Independent_Review_of_Prevent.pdf

@JoyceMeadowcroft1 @bellac11
I’m genuinely delighted that it’s useful.
As pp have said its original intent is obvious.

Would people be concerned if this scenario was about a book supporting single sex relationships? This can be an area some strict Muslims (same as Christians) struggle with.

Prevent looks to nip extremism in the bud, any extremism. Taking offence to this book is no different to taking offence over a book about any protected characteristic.

@Lamelie

Prevent is used to tackle all kinds of terrorism such as far right groups and homophobic groups for example. Not just Muslims.

I disagree. I've just read the book and it refers to "girl dresses". Also i question the title "princess" as that is female.

I would fully support the book if it just said "dresses" and didn't constantly say "princess boy" it could easily challenge stereotypes with something like 'awesome boy'. I'm absolutely against gender stereotypes but I don't agree that's what this book is about

There are a number of posts on mumsnet talk at the moment that seem pretty suspect to me.

This is one of them.

Posts that seem intended to provoke a reaction against - for want of a better word - 'wokeness'.

😒

I've been away from the Talk boards for a few years. Come back and they're awash with people being pissed off with benefits claimants, and GC ranting.

Is this what it's like here now?

Yes, of course, our precious government would never introduce a policy with covert racist intentions whilst pretending it affected all groups equally, all praise our glorious leaders, may those who question them be interred and re-educated, etc.

I've also not watched the video or read the book but did Google it and this is the impression I got too - I could be wrong - and the boys parents recognise this as part and parcel of how kids at his age experiment so embrace it and give him space to do so freely. No indication of transition.

IF I have this right then I'm uncomfortable with any parent/guardian demanding this isn't discussed. It's absolutely right to trample stupid gender stereotypes down and allow our kids to express themselves. This isn't the same as denying biology and telling a child they cc'd n change sex

I agree with this too. Hearts and minds and all that

I've just had a quick look on Active and there is the usual random mix of topics so perhaps you happened to look when it was indeed awash with the areas you mention.

To say it's all GC ranting is a bit unfair I think. There's lots of GC anger at how certain ideologies are harming women and kids but those discussions are on the whole pretty civil. But I wouldn't call that ranting.

Bloody hell! I think you need to educate yourself sharpish!

Do you? Really? On what part exactly? Please be clearer so I know what I need (re)education about. Cheers.

The priest (vicar, deacon,...? I forget his name) who was sacked from the private school for a sermon that wasn't 100% supportive of Lgbtq+ was initially referred, by the school, to Prevent. So, though it was set up in the wake of acts of terror by Islamic extremists, it doesn't just target Muslims. Not now anyway.

I recognised Shakeel Afsar, the speaker in this story and he is a trouble maker as far as I am concerned. He was raising hell during the riots in Leicester last year and there has been a history of islamist agiation against LGBT education in schools for a long time. Some of it has morphed into anti-gender ideology. Do be careful and check the antecedents of some of these people.

I am GC and am not convinced the man's objections are rooted in GC beliefs....more likely conservative beliefs. Talking about 'transgender lifestyles' and having a man stepping in to sort out the issue seems to sit within a different set of beliefs

I'm sure you're right, but does that invalidate his views? If we have true diversity and freedom of expression, there should be room for them.

No-one so far seems to have commented on the "It's the Equality Act" statement by the teacher.
It is a worrying statement, and it is incorrect.
Gender Ideology is a neo-religion. It is not enshrined in law, & schools should not be pushing it at kids

Ah yes you are right. I picked up on that but got distracted by looking the book up.

Completely misquoted the equality act. And actually had it backwards because gender critical or Muslim or any belief are protected but not at the expense of others