Man threatened with Prevent for questioning transgender book at nephew's school.

[aweegc]

Prevent, for anybody who doesn't know, is the government's counterterrorism programme targeting radicalised/extremist Muslims. Schools are obliged to report cases of extremism or radicalisation to it, similar to reporting safeguarding concerns.

I have to say that I'd thought about Prevent being used for some transactivists, it had never occurred to me that Muslims would be silenced this way. Although, now I hear this, it is too obvious a tactic to have overlooked and it's utterly despicable.

So, I just came across this on Instagram. A British Muslim man approached his nephew's school on behalf of his sister, because she was really unhappy with her son bringing home a "book promoting transgender lifestyle". He thought it would be an easy discussion where he was mediating between two women (I'm not commenting on that part - separate issue). I've transcribed it for anybody who can't access the video.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CriblPHol5d/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Transcript:

He says to the head teacher, "'My sister's worried about a book that promotes the transgender lifestyle. If you were going give this to the children or put this in the library, why weren't parents consulted.?' She just went on the offense....When I started to speak to this lady, walahi [I swear to God], it was just a click. When I started to speak she said,
'The way you're talking, we'd have to refer you to Prevent'.
I said, 'What's Prevent?', because at the time I had no understanding.
She goes, "The way you're speaking is very extreme."
I said, "I haven't said anting to you extreme. All I've said is that we don't feel comfortable with our young, innocent nephew being sent home with a book called Princess Boy without the consultation of the parents.'
She goes, 'Well I don't care, it's the Equality Act.'
So my question to her was, 'Well where's my equality then? If it's the Equality Act, and we live in a secular society so there's a full range, a marketplaces of views and everyone must be respected, regardless of how we conflict with one another.. She wasn't having it.'"

I've just skimmed the page you linked so I may have missed it but where does it say that the biggest terrorism threat in the U.K. "is from extremist right wing ideology?" All I could find was this...

"Our Prevent work is intended to deal with all kinds of terrorist threats to the UK. The most significant of these threats is currently from terrorist organisations in Syria and Iraq, and Al Qa’ida associated groups. But terrorists associated with the extreme right also pose a continued threat to our safety and security."

[...]

"The white supremacist ideology of extreme right-wing groups has also provided both the inspiration and justification for people who have committed extreme right-wing terrorist acts"

Remembering in that time we have the threats of the Taliban and Isis.

Of course, Al Qa’ida too. All of who have been considered sufficient of a threat to commit billions of pounds in armed forces deployment.

That's a dickish response to my comment.

It was a dickish response to share a quite detailed story of someone else’s experience of sexual assault on a thread about a Muslim man being threatened with Prevent( for challenging the suitability of a book about transgenderism for children).

Does your DD know you tell strangers about the sexual crime perpetrated against her to make your political points on the internet?

Of course there are some women who sexually assault, however it's still 98% male perpetrators of sexual assault and therefore it still makes sense to safeguard on the basis of sex.

Having sex segregation etc means you'd cut the rate of sexual assault quite significantly, which would free up resources for those assaulted by women. If you just allow mixed sex spaces, there are more sexual assaults overall (there are stats for this on mixed sex vs single sex changing which I don't have time to look up right now but they're probably on the 'break it down for me' thread) which presumably means less support by any individual survivor.

Nonsense, it was set up following the 9/11 attacks in NY and the 7/7 attacks in London by Muslim fundamentalists. In the years since it was set up in 2015 all the terrorist incidents have been Islamist. To say the biggest risk is far right is to ignore the facts.

This. Silly revisionism.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONTEST

The question still stands.

You can't say we are 'bad thing' for knowing the difference between men and women, but allowing yourself and your daughter that priviledge.

Unless you are being completely disingenuous of course.

izimbra · Yesterday 11:51
"They now expect women to include transwomen in the women's own group. Even for a sex-based crime."

My young adult daughter was assaulted by a woman - held overnight and threatened. The woman only let my daughter come home after I threatened to get the police involved. (incidentally - when I called the police and told them my daughter had been plied with alcohol, had texted me to say the woman she'd gone on a date with had hit her and shouted at her, and refused to let her leave and that she was scared, the police response was 'what do you expect us to do?)

Would it be reasonable of my daughter to ask for counselling in a setting that doesn't include women, given that a woman was responsible for her assault?

Well, yes, I am sure if she were looking for a counsellor and did not want to see a woman, those involved at a crisis centre would help her source one-to-one counselling with a man.

Massively more assaults are perpetrated by men, though (98% roughly), so it would be surprising if this did not entail making special arrangements for the 2%.
And wrong not to set up women only services for the vast majority.

I am sorry for what happened to your daughter.

The question still stands.

You can't say we are 'bad thing' for knowing the difference between men and women, but allowing yourself and your daughter that priviledge.

Unless you are being completely disingenuous of course.

Quite.

*izimbra" · Yesterday 11:46

Is Isla Bryant a trans woman?

He says he is and Nicola Sturgeon wouldn't say that he's not, but to most of us, he's a multiple rapist, with a long history of violence.

To be clear - if you had a colleague/friend/relative who was a trans woman - you'd refuse to acknowledge it? You'd continue to refer to them using male pronouns?

I’ve wondered about this. I honestly don’t think I could refer to my Dad as a she or “Mum”. I think it would be psychologically scarring.

"The question still stands.

You can't say we are 'bad thing' for knowing the difference between men and women, but allowing yourself and your daughter that priviledge.

Unless you are being completely disingenuous of course."

Everyone knows that trans women are people who are born biologically male. I accept that someone who was born male may not identify emotionally or psychologically as a man and be happier presenting as a woman and thinking of themselves as a woman. Of having hormone treatment and surgery that changes the way their body and mind works to be what they feel is a truer reflection of who they feel they are. Because human beings are complex and that sometimes - like with religion - the things we need to believe in order to live happy and fulfilled lives in this world and to feel fully ourselves, are rooted in the mind and heart and not in physics and materiality. I love that we live in a world where we're allowed to do this, and I don't understand why people like you are so twisted up over a very, very tiny number of people wanting to live their lives in this way.

I'm watching what's going on in Florida and thinking that there are people on this thread that want us to do the same in the UK. It's chilling.

I would call them by their chosen name. It would be rude to use third-person pronouns in their presence. I would not lie about their sex and would consider it harassment if someone tried to force me to do so.

Everyone knows that trans women are people who are born biologically male. I accept that someone who was born male may not identify emotionally or psychologically as a man and be happier presenting as a woman and thinking of themselves as a woman. Of having hormone treatment and surgery that changes the way their body and mind works to be what they feel is a truer reflection of who they feel they are. Because human beings are complex and that sometimes - like with religion - the things we need to believe in order to live happy and fulfilled lives in this world and to feel fully ourselves, are rooted in the mind and heart and not in physics and materiality. I love that we live in a world where we're allowed to do this, and I don't understand why people like you are so twisted up over a very, very tiny number of people wanting to live their lives in this way.

Nobody cares if other people want to live a lie. What they care about is having to budge up in sports / services and spaces designed for women in order to accommodate men who don’t “identify” as what they are. You do you, but don’t expect women to accommodate your delusion.

Any male born person can call himself Jane instead of John, wear dresses and pretend to be female as far as I'm concerned. But they don't become female as every cell in their body will still show them to be XY. Neither do they have the right to ask me to engage in the fantasy that they do become female. Neither should they be permitted to take part in sports with women, or use women only facilities. All of this is typically male behaviour, acting as though females have no input and no rights, telling women what is acceptable and refusing to listen. Men don't change their behaviour when they become trans, they just carry on as men.
To be clear, wear what you like, call yourself what you like, but accept that you are still privileged and don't change sex.

Except using phrases like “biologically male” has been deemed violently transphobic and kills TW. TW ARE WOMEN and any suggestion that the second a man decides he’s a woman there’s any difference between him and any other woman is bigotry, causes Trans kids to kill themselves and makes you a fascist. TRANS PENISES ARE WOMEN’S PENISES and if you think differently you’re a Nazi!

No trans women aren't women. If they were they wouldn't need surgery or female hormones.

I'm watching what's going on in Florida and thinking that there are people on this thread that want us to do the same in the UK. It's chilling.

Florida banned treatment for minors. (There are major risks, only limited evidence, and minors can't properly consent.)

They banned playing on the wrong sex team in public schools. (Just play on the correct sex team?)

They also limit what you can teach in schools about sexuality and gender identity. (Oh no, teachers will not be able to teach their pupils that there are a thousand different genders!)

You can still be transgender.

@Misstache "Except using phrases like “biologically male” has been deemed violently transphobic and kills TW."

I personally don't use the phrase "biologically male" just for the same reasons I don't say "geometrically a triangle" or "audibly loud." It's already in the word's own meaning.

My post was sarcastic, by the way. I thought it would be obviously satirically over the top but I think I inadvertently sounded like a real TRA!

Because human beings are complex and that sometimes - like with religion - the things we need to believe in order to live happy and fulfilled lives in this world and to feel fully ourselves, are rooted in the mind and heart and not in physics and materiality. I love that we live in a world where we're allowed to do this, and I don't understand why people like you are so twisted up over a very, very tiny number of people wanting to live their lives in this way.

It's not possible. They require constant validation from the outside world, which isn't going to always be there. If I could just say to MTF people, "fair play to you but I don't believe you're a woman" and they left women alone and had third spaces, there wouldn't be a problem. But it isn't just about "living their lives" in many cases, it's power tripping. And I think you are very naive.

Sadly even totally over the top sarcasm is indistinguishable from TRA rhetoric these days.