Angry with my non binary brother- how to help SIL

[Angrywithmybrother]

I’m a long time lurker on these boards but feel confounded by this recent situation in my own life. I’m thinking just typing it will help.

My brother (in his 40s) came out as non-binary last year. He was quite tearful when he told me as he thinks I’m a TERF and probably thought I’d react badly. I didn’t say much - “I can see why you would want to go move away from narrow gender constructs” or something like that. My parents didn’t say much either apparently. I don’t think they understand the issues.

I saw my SIL recently at a family event and got chatting to her. She basically said that she is devastated by the whole thing. Apparently my brother just announced it to her and their friends at the same time. He has started to go to work and social events ‘as a woman’ now. Dressed in a stereotypical female way. He has also started to repeatedly correct their children’s use of pronouns towards him, even though they don’t understand. If my SIL questions it he calls her a transphobe and a bigot. She said she is at breaking point.

I’m just wondering if anyone has had any luck talking to someone about this and getting them to see both sides. I feel like my brother has been radicalised.

I don’t like the use of this word ‘radicalised’. He’s a 40 year old man FGS with complete self agency. Using the word ‘radicalise’ makes it sound like it’s something that’s been done to him or that he’s been kidnapped and brainwashed. I hate it when it’s used in relation to Mumsnet (radicalised by FWR) - like we’re some mindless, homogenous mass being influenced by a religion.

Was your brother annoying before all this?

! yep most definitely.

You can bet your bottom dollar that any difficulty his wife and kids have about processing this bombshell will be immediately put down, by his new friends, to transphobia, bigotry, hate etc.. It never seems to occur to them that there are real people with real feelings involved.

Indeed you are correct. She should accept that SIL is a straight female who's spouse is changing gender to become a transwoman and that SIL and the children are in desperate need of support and acceptance.

OP's sibling will get a landslide of support of their own from their new friends.

This.

He sounds so selfish.

His poor family.

Support her in getting the hell away from him.

What a headfxxk for his children.

i hadn’t thought in terms of mid life crisis.

I agree with the posts that your sil should divorce him to protect herself and the children. He is not available to love his wife anymore. He’s taken that spot for himself.

Absolutely this.

Point out to him HOW his behaviour is unacceptable and he has both failed to give his wife respect, but ambushed her and humiliated her before she had any time to process it.

Not to mention the coercive control and emotional blackmail going on here.

Treat him equality to any other man or woman. He's an utterly selfish bastard who is only interested in himself.

An excellent message for the brother to take on board about his wife. Thanks 😊

She is worried that the therapist is going to same as everyone else- It’s him that is going through a difficult time and she needs to support him etc.

Then she needs to check out Transwidows right now: and perhaps through them she can find someone to talk to.

https://www.transwidowsvoices.org/

I have a friend going through something similar. Her married son in his 40s, with children, had MH problems during Covid, resigned from his work and hasn't really recovered since then. Not long before Christmas he told his wife that he was a woman trapped in a man's body and wanted to express his true self, and since then has worn skirts and make-up and insisted that the children (still in primary school) call him by his new name. His wife was devastated: she was one of those people who had somehow managed to escape awareness of the whole GI/ transgender thing and just didn't know what to make of it. My friend, who has been GC for years, helped her DIL get up to speed.

When it became clear that the children were very unhappy with the situation the wife asked him to leave. I think probably a solicitor was involved. Certainly is now, because the wife has started divorce proceedings. The DS came home to live with my friend (his mother) who is struggling badly . He's very demanding and self-righteous and according to her he lives in his own transgender world full of trans online friends. She is very upset at how little concern he has for his children.

My friend feels strongly that he's mentally ill and she hoped his new GP would understand that and help get him appropriate treatment. Her son tells her that the GP sees transition as part of the healing process and doesn't think his MH has anything to do with it. He has been started on hormones.

The background and details of every situation are different, but the basics — the entitlement, the self-absorption, the lack of respect for wives and children — seem strangely similar. If I was in your shoes, OP, I'd support SIL and, sadly, stand well back from your DB. I couldn't be fair or impartial and I don't think you need to be. I don't think anything you do or say to him will make the slightest difference. As previous posters have said, he's been radicalised.

This programme from the BBC might give you an indication of how susceptible ordinary people can be and how difficult it is to deter them from doing things that are clearly, to the rest of us, inadvisable.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001krb2/a-very-british-cult

‘Surely the pronouns pretty redundant in close family set up the kids call your brother dad and she calls him ‘Dave’’ Dave and I have separated… Dave can you pick up kids at 7pm…etc, kids your dad is getting you from school today etc.’

You do realise you have just committed major Misgendering and should be cast into the outer darkness without appeal.
’Your dad ‘…….that’s actual violence. Oh where is Mishy when we need them to explain it all again?

OP, I am sorry for your SIL and for your niece/ nephew. They must be reeling. I’m sorry for you too, it must be very upsetting to see your shared childhood rendered into some sort of misunderstanding .

Great post and advice.

Those children need to be the utter priority to keep them safe from their fathers self absorption, verbal abuse and accusations of their mother, and the huge confusion this would cause in a child.

Support your sister-in-law. He is being entirely selfish if he thinks he can dictate what small children see with their own eyes and bully them into submission. He is also being entirely selfish if he thinks his wife should just 'support' him in this change. In what way is he supporting her in this change? In what way is he supporting his children? Why does everything have to revolve around him?

Your SIL needs to be reassured that she is allowed to divorce your brother without any shame or fear of accusations of prejudice.

She chose to marry a man, it is her absolute right to leave a marriage to a person who decides they are no longer a man.

Essentially their marriage contract is broken as your SIL married someone who your brother is claiming no longer exists; that wasn't her decision.

I find it ridiculous that people (usually women) are expected to support a spouse who has changed their whole persona, she should walk away completely guilt-free.

And try telling him this: 'Love if you are a woman, you are going to have to get used to not being the centre of attention. Get used to being pushed to the sidelines. Like how you pushed your wife to the sidelines and expect her to adapt and cope and shut up and keep smiling on? Well, now you are a woman, consider that your job. Shut your mouth, shrink your ego, don't dissent. Never complain. Submit. Got it, sister?'

He's entitled to live as he chooses, if that's as his 'version' of a woman, so be it. But so is SiL. And my assumption is that SiL wants to be married to a man who is a man 100% of the time. If her 'husband' no longer fits that requirement she is entitled to leave him and that does not make her a 'transphobe' or anything like it.

It's no different than any other radical change in a spouse that violates the other spouse's needs or beliefs. For example, if my DH was to 'transition'/come out as gay, become a right wing nut job Trumper, or profess a religion that was 'contra' to my own beliefs, I'd leave him in a shot. There is no 'rule' that says someone has to stay in a relationship that does not meet their needs, just because staying meets their spouse's needs. And for someone to say they should for any reason is tantamount to emotional blackmail.

I'd support SiL in leaving him and do all I could to help her facilitate it. If she chooses counseling, that's good. And if that counselor pressures her into accepting the situation, she can find a new counselor. But I'd think it would be easy to weed them out by simply asking them their views on not wanting to be married to a person who has decided to change genders.

Be warned: for men, coming out as non binary is often just a stepping stone on the way to coming out as a trans woman. It sounds like your brother is heading that way. There's a woman in my bumpers group - our kids have just turned two - whose partner came out as non binary just after their child was born and then decided he was a woman not long afterwards.

Completely agree with this.

I think the shame of not supporting the 'stunning and brave' precious little soul is dreadful. And the whole thing is humiliating. I mean 'didnt you have any idea when you married him?'

I apologise if I did not use the sister in law’s partner’s preferred pronouns.

My broader point remains though. This person has probably been going through a lot, perhaps much of it in secret, perhaps for many, many years. I can well appreciate the shock the SIL will be feeling, and the pain at not having been amongst the first to be told. It may be the martial relationship will not be able to survive this. I don’t know. But they do ideally need to maintain a working relationship of sorts, if only for the sake of the kids.

Demonising a person who is going through gender identity issues is not helpful or humane and will not help anyone. Some of the language being used and the sentiments being expressed on this thread has been less that respectful.

Well, if she sees a therapist by herself, the focus will be on her and her own feelings. That's the point of individual therapy.

Whether or not they attempt couple's therapy will depend, I expect, how how interested they both are in working on their relationship, and if they were going to attempt it, they would need to choose the therapist carefully. Of course some couple's therapist are better than others, but in theory the therapist should be supporting them both to communicate their feelings and needs to each other, and not focusing on one person over the other. In theory!

If I was her I'd be furious that he chose to announce it to her and friends without talking to her about it first. That feels like a betrayal.

Such classic abusive tactics - he behaves appallingly by making a huge decision and implementing it without any thought or consideration for her and not even telling her before he tells everyone else. Then, when she protests, she is labelled the abusive/controlling one (TERF, bigot etc) and weirdly, this is supported by a whole bunch of other people so that instead of her having the opportunity to express her upset that she has been treated badly, she becomes the bad guy.

OP - whether or not you are willing or able to support your brother as he transitions or whatever he's choosing to do, doesn't mean you have to support the way his behaviour negatively impacts on your SIL and their children. SIL has the right to say this doesn't work for her and to walk away.

He's trying to tick the right box. Naive q but how does a 'non'binary' dress, half and half male/female?

Hardly 'demonising' - anyone of either sex who engages in something that means they centre themselves without interest or care for their partner or children's needs, feelings, equality with themselves, is behaving badly and is not relationship material. It is not all and only about the transitioner. They are not the only person having a hard time.

The demand for sympathy, enablement, that the woman and children in the situation just martyr themselves entirely? It's not healthy, is it?

I would have a whole lot more 'respect' for transitioners such as this if it did not so very often come with a degree of self obsession that is alarming, and apparent abandonment of emotional bonds, reciprocal care for those they previously loved, even the basic social awareness that other people have feelings too. It implies that a lot more is going on than choice. Relationship advice for those in relationships with partners also caught up in things that have absorbed them entirely and blocked their capacity to participate or feel such as addiction, is to protect themselves and children.

No one owes a distressed person their own happiness.

Why should I respect someone who has treated HIS WIFE and children like this?

One good reason.

Not only that, but it's textbook. It's the same pattern of abuse that a number of her recognise.

That's not ok.

I will give respect to those who give respect to women and I won't be held to emotional appeals to 'be kind' to emotionally abusive men. However they identify.

If I was in that position, I'd divorce him. I don't have to accept it at all. Afterall I met him as a straight man before we married, it's wrong to change afterwards then demand to be accepted. If I wanted a husband in a dress, then I would have married one, right?! Help your sil not to feel bad for leaving him.

Is it any different to religion?

Nobody would care if you brother became Buddhist or Muslim but as soon as he tries to inflict it on his wife or kids there is a problem.