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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Stand Comedy Club statement on cancelling Jo Cherry

250 replies

WandaWomblesaurus · 01/05/2023 15:34

twitter.com/StandComedyClub/status/1653017007921545221?s=20

OP posts:
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7
Shelefttheweb · 02/05/2023 20:33

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 20:23

It would be completed economically unviable to hire and train up staff in their particular operations and safety for what, is it one night? To run one night safely at what 2 hours max?) they would probably need multiple nights of experience for each member of staff.

Even that to my mind wouldn't be safe.

It's just not practical. I can't be 100% but they certainly don't seem to run as a wealthy venue, during Covid we donated money for the online shows to try to keep them and the circuit comedians going. Their shows are generally between £5-20 and small capacity.

That is why I wouldn’t tolerate staff who were bigots and would seek to employ staff who were tolerant and inclusive of all protected characteristics instead.

It would also not be economically viable to continuously pay out discrimination claims.

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 20:34

Waitwhat23 · 02/05/2023 20:27

They are currently advertising for staff to work between July 27th,2023 to September 3rd, 2023 i.e. the Festival.

So what? Are you expecting 18 year old uni students to handle a situation which goes wrong?

That's who they will be employing during that period.

You want the old hands who have decades of experience of different unfolding situations in venues they have intimate knowledge of. And it sounds like they are refusing to be there.

Shelefttheweb · 02/05/2023 20:38

suggestionsplease1

Would you also support the venue if their staff refused to work with transwomen? Or black men? Would you still say ‘well it can’t be helped that we employed prejudiced bigots, they are the only ones with experience so if they say no transwomen or no blacks then fine’?

PSNonsense · 02/05/2023 20:39

A lot of assumptions there @suggestionsplease1

AlisonDonut · 02/05/2023 20:40

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 19:48

I'm a regular at one of The Stand's main venues...they operate in a very particular way which is actually quite different to other comedy venues (unusual rules about positioning of chairs for health and safety and frequent reminders to customers not to adjust layout, emergency exit protocols for basement, staff that are highly trained in appropriate response to hecklers that get out of hand in a tightly packed venue and might escalate a situation with their friends, checking customers are confirming to rules about no large single sex groups etc etc)

And that's aside from staffing the bar and doing the sound tech that's required.

There is no way if a sizeable number if their staff decided not to work that they could safely host an act that was likely to be controversial. If would be completely economically unfeasible to try to train up unfamiliar staff with all the nuance of how they operate.

Joanna Cherry KC is an elected politician, and a lawyer who has worked in human rights for years. How is she in any way 'contraversial'?

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 20:41

AlisonDonut · 02/05/2023 20:40

Joanna Cherry KC is an elected politician, and a lawyer who has worked in human rights for years. How is she in any way 'contraversial'?

Maybe ask the staff who are refusing to work? 🤷‍♂️

Shelefttheweb · 02/05/2023 20:50

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 20:41

Maybe ask the staff who are refusing to work? 🤷‍♂️

Could you answer my question please? If The Stand staff refused to work for acts that contained black men or women, or transwomen, would you think that if was ok for The Stand to refuse such acts?

Waitwhat23 · 02/05/2023 20:50

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 20:34

So what? Are you expecting 18 year old uni students to handle a situation which goes wrong?

That's who they will be employing during that period.

You want the old hands who have decades of experience of different unfolding situations in venues they have intimate knowledge of. And it sounds like they are refusing to be there.

I can think of at least 3 people I know (not inexperienced 18 year olds) who live and work in Edinburgh who can and do work similar venues for the Festival. As well as experienced venue staff from the across the country who come up for the festival. And musicians and singers who do similar who could do it without much bother.

It sounds like the staff at the The Stand have rather fallen for their own hype, to be honest.

ArabeIIaScott · 02/05/2023 20:56

staff that are highly trained in appropriate response to hecklers

Like, ninjas? Is there a crack Heckle Response Team?

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 21:02

Shelefttheweb · 02/05/2023 20:50

Could you answer my question please? If The Stand staff refused to work for acts that contained black men or women, or transwomen, would you think that if was ok for The Stand to refuse such acts?

That's not comparing like with like. 🤷‍♂️ I imagine this situation is occurring because of views that are promoted, not because of skin colour, sex or gender ID

ArabeIIaScott · 02/05/2023 21:02

Waitwhat23 · 02/05/2023 20:10

To be honest, given the list of 'unusual' jobs you've given, any good front of house staff member from another venue could learn the job without too much bother.

100%.

Other than maybe the special heckling maneouvres. I think those need skills and possibly specialist equipment.

WickedSerious · 02/05/2023 21:09

ArabeIIaScott · 02/05/2023 21:02

100%.

Other than maybe the special heckling maneouvres. I think those need skills and possibly specialist equipment.

And a sexy uniform.

Waitwhat23 · 02/05/2023 21:09

ArabeIIaScott · 02/05/2023 21:02

100%.

Other than maybe the special heckling maneouvres. I think those need skills and possibly specialist equipment.

I did have to laugh at 'unusual rules about positioning of chairs for health and safety and frequent reminders to customers not to adjust layout'. Kids doing front of house for school productions do that.

ArabeIIaScott · 02/05/2023 21:11

Aye, it's not rocket science. Box office has software that needs a bit of training. FoH is basically pointing and smiling, pretty much anyone could do it.

ArabeIIaScott · 02/05/2023 21:11

Perhaps with some additional diagrams for chair placement.

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 21:12

ArabeIIaScott · 02/05/2023 20:56

staff that are highly trained in appropriate response to hecklers

Like, ninjas? Is there a crack Heckle Response Team?

Maybe you've not been to a night at a comedy club where things all go wrong, but when they do go wrong there can be fights, and even outright attacks.

What starts off as banter that the act perhaps indulges can soon escalate into something much more serious if a come-back is taken as a little too personal, too offensive. You just need someone with a few drinks in them to be humiliated in front of their friends for it all to go wrong.

The staff have seen it all before. They know who is likely to cause trouble, they know what level of response is appropriate to try to stop things from escalating. They know who will shut up if they have a word, they know when they need to ask someone to leave. They know the friend to talk to to try to get their drunk pal to quieten down. They know when to send a signal to play loud music to interrupt the escalating exchange between act and heckler.

To do it well and to maintain safety continuation of the show it does take a lot of experience.

Shelefttheweb · 02/05/2023 21:12

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 21:02

That's not comparing like with like. 🤷‍♂️ I imagine this situation is occurring because of views that are promoted, not because of skin colour, sex or gender ID

Which ‘views’ were those then?

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 21:14

Shelefttheweb · 02/05/2023 21:12

Which ‘views’ were those then?

How would I know? I don't work there/ not refusing to work. You'd need to ask the staff in question.

NatashaDancing · 02/05/2023 21:14

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 20:34

So what? Are you expecting 18 year old uni students to handle a situation which goes wrong?

That's who they will be employing during that period.

You want the old hands who have decades of experience of different unfolding situations in venues they have intimate knowledge of. And it sounds like they are refusing to be there.

What a load of tosh. I say that as a Fringe attendee at probably 1000's of shows at all sorts of venue.

lifeinthelastlane · 02/05/2023 21:15

So, you have security. Like every venue in Edinburgh I've ever been to. You don't need everyone behind the bar to be trained in this.
The Stand is actually a tiny venue. Hopefully JC will find somewhere better for a talk, I'd be interested in hearing her.

Waitwhat23 · 02/05/2023 21:20

ArabeIIaScott · 02/05/2023 21:11

Aye, it's not rocket science. Box office has software that needs a bit of training. FoH is basically pointing and smiling, pretty much anyone could do it.

To be fair, I've had to deal with some strange situations doing FOH but the claims that no-one but the staff who have always been there could possibly deal with any of the situations described is overblown to say the least.

lifeturnsonadime · 02/05/2023 21:25

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 20:41

Maybe ask the staff who are refusing to work? 🤷‍♂️

Well let me guess, they've said that they don't want a lesbian woman who thinks that lesbians don't do dick doesn't have opinions worthy of being heard?

Mmmm no misogyny or lesphobia there is there?

QueenHippolyta · 02/05/2023 21:26

It doesn't matter, The Stand and its employees have a legal duty not to discriminate against a protected characteristic.
The Stand is legally responsible if it does discriminate and they admitted it. The staff who refused to serve are also individually liable.

lifeturnsonadime · 02/05/2023 21:27

lifeturnsonadime · 02/05/2023 21:25

Well let me guess, they've said that they don't want a lesbian woman who thinks that lesbians don't do dick doesn't have opinions worthy of being heard?

Mmmm no misogyny or lesphobia there is there?

Apologies a few too many negatives in there but you get my gist.

It is anti woman homophobia that is going on here dressed up as 'trans rights' .

Sick to the fucking teeth of it.

suggestionsplease1 · 02/05/2023 21:31

Well they host a lot of lesbian comics so I don't think think an accusation if discrimination on the lines of sexuality would stand up.