Page 13 | Eddie Izzard interview - one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read

SmugglersHaunt · 2023-04-26T17:11:27+00:00

[[https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/apr/26/suzy-eddie-izzard-dickens-great-expectations-hamlet https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/apr/26/suzy-eddie-izzard-dickens-great-expectations-hamlet]] Uses she/her throughout, ‘one woman show’ etc etc - calling anyone who disagrees that TWAW ‘fascists’. Every time I think I’m inured to this rubbish I read or see something that makes me despair. What a pathetic, preening liar he is.

JellySaurus · 05/05/2023 11:10

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 05/05/2023 11:05

Don't you find it problematic that rape is seen only as penetrative? It's almost like saying that only penetration by penis counts and that digital penetration is a lesser offence. Apparently female on female rape is an invisible crime precisely because of the legal definition, but my logic tells me that women must also be capable of committing acts of sexual violence, DV etc. Statistically i would guess (just a guess) that the statistics for rape by trans are similar to female to female assaults.

However, I don't want to derail the thread and now have some great reading suggestions and will go off and do my homework.

Sexual assault is a crime.

I dont know why you would assume that some males would commit sexual crimes at the same rate as women?

Maybe you need to start a new thread, because you do seem to be derailing this one.

It's an interesting point, and definitely worthy of a separate thread to discuss.

UK defines rape as unconsenting penetration with a penis, but other countries do not differentiate between the object used. Be interesting to see the stats of rape by sex of rapist.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 05/05/2023 11:11

The idea that taking a photo is harassment and stalking, when a man entering a women toilets isnt, is male entitlement.

A man clearly ignores all social norms in public, but doesn’t want anyone to comment?

People need to give their head a wobble.

SunThroughTheCloudsAt6am · 05/05/2023 11:13

She told Cailey: “This is a minefield. If it was a man we might be able to get somewhere but prosecution is unlikely because it’s a woman – you’re talking about 1% prosecution rates or something.”

Well, that reveals the research to be less than reliable - the charge rate for rape is 1% (less now I think) in general

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 05/05/2023 11:14

To be honest, the definition of rape gmhas been discuss here many time, im sure advance search might being up existing threads

zibzibara · 05/05/2023 11:17

The term should really be "transwo man" to indicate which sex category they are a subset of.

literalviolence · 05/05/2023 11:20

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 05/05/2023 11:11

The idea that taking a photo is harassment and stalking, when a man entering a women toilets isnt, is male entitlement.

A man clearly ignores all social norms in public, but doesn’t want anyone to comment?

People need to give their head a wobble.

That's so true! If it was a photo taken of him whilst he was in the cubicle when the door was shut, that would be different. But it's not. It's evidence of men abusing women's spaces. Anyone who tries to shut that down should hang their head in shame. Imagine haranguing women for taking a photo of a fully dressed man in a public place infringing women's rights!

JellySaurus · 05/05/2023 12:13

zibzibara · 05/05/2023 11:17

The term should really be "transwo man" to indicate which sex category they are a subset of.

Yes 💪

TWETMIRF · 05/05/2023 13:29

WeeblesWobbled · 05/05/2023 07:41

I have a genuine interest/curiosity about people's views on this stuff because I feel I don't know enough to fall on one side or the other of the argument. My instinct is to support people who identify as Trans because I am taking their feelings on good faith and believe that everybody deserves the recognition of basic human rights. I would always respect people's choice of pronoun.

In a philosophical sense I find the appropriation of the word "they/them" as a pronoun very useful as it suggests that we are moving towards equality in the language. Pronouns "she" and "he" are overdetermined by sexism.

However I never thought about issues affecting feminism until I read an article where Germaine Greer talked about how, because they do not have a history of inhabiting a female body from birth, men who identify as Trans do not have the concomitant feminine psyche that is circumscribed by upbringing. She said that men who identify as women have inhabited bodies that in our current society give them a physical and psychological advantage. That really got me thinking.

I find it impossible to wade through the arguments on both sides because the current culture war is so toxic and hysterical. While each side lobs insults at the other like Molotov Cocktails people like me are caught in the crossfire with no exit route.

If I look at one of the issues people seem concerned with - Trans women inhabiting female spaces: I find it a problematic argument that some Trans women pose a risk of sexual assault because cis women are also capable of such an act (apparently woman on woman rape accounts for 10% of all such recorded crimes).

I apologise for the long post, but if there are any books that people recommend for helping me to learn more about this subject I would be very grateful. At the moment I feel really scared to open my mouth and say that, as a person from an older generation, I just don't understand and would love some clarity.

I know you said you are going to do your homework but I just wanted to say that when talking about transwomen these days it's not the Hayley Cropper of yesteryear. To suggest any discomfort with their male body is considered transphobic. Having a fully working penis and celebrating that fact by wanking in women's toilets and changing rooms etc is all fine and dandy. Trying on M&S pants and leaving cum in them before putting them back on the rack is particularly popular and they write online about it. All done in the women's changing rooms as M&S says any bloke is welcome in them

WeeblesWobbled · 05/05/2023 16:40

TWETMIRF · 05/05/2023 13:29

I know you said you are going to do your homework but I just wanted to say that when talking about transwomen these days it's not the Hayley Cropper of yesteryear. To suggest any discomfort with their male body is considered transphobic. Having a fully working penis and celebrating that fact by wanking in women's toilets and changing rooms etc is all fine and dandy. Trying on M&S pants and leaving cum in them before putting them back on the rack is particularly popular and they write online about it. All done in the women's changing rooms as M&S says any bloke is welcome in them

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What confuses me is are those really trans women or are they pervy men masquerading as Trans?

waterlego · 05/05/2023 17:08

@WeeblesWobbled, by ‘really transwomen’ do you mean ‘suffering from gender dysphoria’?

Because clearly someone who is using their penis to wank into women’s knickers in a woman-only space can’t be dysphoric. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t really trans. Gender dysphoria is not a requirement for being trans. In fact some would say it’s transphobic to say it should be. It can also be considered transphobic to suggest that a TW who chooses to keep his penis and balls can’t really be trans. ‘Some women have penises’ is what we’ve been told.

So there is no such thing as ‘really trans’. People are who they say they are, and to ask for clarification on this (or point out the issues) is a bigot.

waterlego · 05/05/2023 17:10

Sorry, ‘is bigotry’ that should say.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 05/05/2023 17:22

@WeeblesWobbled how do you think we can tell on sight whether a man presenting in stereotypical women’s clothes is a. Genuinely dysphoric b. A man with a paraphilia who gets sexually aroused by wearing women’s clothes & using women’s spaces?

ControversialOpening · 05/05/2023 17:47

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JellySaurus · 05/05/2023 17:59

What confuses me is are those really trans women or are they pervy men masquerading as Trans?

What difference does it make?

ErrolTheDragon · 05/05/2023 18:09

What confuses me is are those really trans women or are they pervy men masquerading as Trans?

Hence the fundamental flaw with 'self id', and also with the massive 'stonewall trans umbrella'.

And yeah, from the perspective of women, what difference does it make? Maybe it makes a difference to you or me, but to some women it really doesn't. Their needs have to take priority over male wants.

nilsmousehammer · 05/05/2023 18:32

JellySaurus · 05/05/2023 17:59

What confuses me is are those really trans women or are they pervy men masquerading as Trans?

What difference does it make?

This. ^^

If you're being excluded by a male person, you're probably not that interested on exactly what's going on between that male's ears as he's excluding you.

WhereYouLeftIt · 05/05/2023 19:03

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SargentSagittarius · 05/05/2023 19:46

WeeblesWobbled · 05/05/2023 16:40

What confuses me is are those really trans women or are they pervy men masquerading as Trans?

Show quote history

What does it matter?

They're both entitled to be there, we have no way of knowing which is which (just as we have no way of knowing the good men from the men who will harm us), and if we have an issue with either, we’re ‘hateful, transphobic bigots’.

SargentSagittarius · 05/05/2023 19:47

Helpful?

WhereYouLeftIt · 05/05/2023 20:13

Interesting - my post has been deleted.

From talk guidelines:

Post deletions
We'll remove posts we consider to contain personal attacks, to break the law and/or to be obscene, racist, sexist, disablist, ageist, homophobic or transphobic, once they are brought to our attention. We will also delete any posts that we think are just seriously unpleasant (please note that any subsequent posts repeating the words in the deleted post may be removed also).

Could you possibly point out what fell foul of the talk guidelines, @MNHQ? Genuinely interested.

Waitwhat23 · 05/05/2023 20:31

WhereYouLeftIt · 05/05/2023 20:13

Interesting - my post has been deleted.

From talk guidelines:

Post deletions
We'll remove posts we consider to contain personal attacks, to break the law and/or to be obscene, racist, sexist, disablist, ageist, homophobic or transphobic, once they are brought to our attention. We will also delete any posts that we think are just seriously unpleasant (please note that any subsequent posts repeating the words in the deleted post may be removed also).

Could you possibly point out what fell foul of the talk guidelines, @MNHQ? Genuinely interested.

Just to let you know that @mnhq doesn't go anywhere. You need to either @ a named administrator or report one of your posts and ask why your previous post was deleted in the comment box.

EmmaDial · 03/08/2023 14:58

Dear Mr Izzard
May I suggest you ask Grayson Perry for some style tips. He has a wonderful understanding of colour.
More importantly Mr Perry has not let his clothes damage his intellect.
Yours Emma Dial (Miss)