Eddie Izzard interview - one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read

[SmugglersHaunt]

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/apr/26/suzy-eddie-izzard-dickens-great-expectations-hamlet

Uses she/her throughout, ‘one woman show’ etc etc - calling anyone who disagrees that TWAW ‘fascists’.

Every time I think I’m inured to this rubbish I read or see something that makes me despair. What a pathetic, preening liar he is.

Fully intact male-bodied people shouldn’t be female only spaces.

Fully intact male-bodied people who are sexually attracted to women certainly shouldn’t be in female only spaces.

Fully intact male-bodied people, who are sexually attracted to women, and who think they’re entitled to be in female only spaces, absolutely should not be in female only spaces.

Fully intact male-bodied people who are sexually attracted to women, and who think they’re entitled to be on female only spaces - and expect everyone around them go along with the delusion that they’re women - categorically should not be in female only spaces.

I could go on and on. Suffice to say: fuck off.

You deserve all the naming, shaming, mockery and meme-creating coming your way.

You forgot the time when Izzard chased teenaged girls out of a public lavatory and then boasted about it.

That is so typically Grauniad. Wouldn't be the Grauniad without mistakes like that. Then they have to add it to the list of corrections. hahaha. I hope that Eddie was able to laugh about that.

i think they should use Suzy Eddie because it expresses their gender fluidity.

I have a genuine interest/curiosity about people's views on this stuff because I feel I don't know enough to fall on one side or the other of the argument. My instinct is to support people who identify as Trans because I am taking their feelings on good faith and believe that everybody deserves the recognition of basic human rights. I would always respect people's choice of pronoun.

In a philosophical sense I find the appropriation of the word "they/them" as a pronoun very useful as it suggests that we are moving towards equality in the language. Pronouns "she" and "he" are overdetermined by sexism.

However I never thought about issues affecting feminism until I read an article where Germaine Greer talked about how, because they do not have a history of inhabiting a female body from birth, men who identify as Trans do not have the concomitant feminine psyche that is circumscribed by upbringing. She said that men who identify as women have inhabited bodies that in our current society give them a physical and psychological advantage. That really got me thinking.

I find it impossible to wade through the arguments on both sides because the current culture war is so toxic and hysterical. While each side lobs insults at the other like Molotov Cocktails people like me are caught in the crossfire with no exit route.

If I look at one of the issues people seem concerned with - Trans women inhabiting female spaces: I find it a problematic argument that some Trans women pose a risk of sexual assault because cis women are also capable of such an act (apparently woman on woman rape accounts for 10% of all such recorded crimes).

I apologise for the long post, but if there are any books that people recommend for helping me to learn more about this subject I would be very grateful. At the moment I feel really scared to open my mouth and say that, as a person from an older generation, I just don't understand and would love some clarity.

I thought he was a bloke.

@WeeblesWobbled you might enjoy Shon Faye's The Transgender Issue: an argument for justice. I've read many trans people recommending Whipping Girl by Julia Serano but I have only got halfway through it so far as it's deeply unconvincing to me.

My views are influenced by a lot of things but I'm a healthcare professional who deals daily with the fact that sex is a physical reality with real world consequences. I accept that people want to transition and somehow we have to reconcile those things.

@WeeblesWobbled - I highly recommend Helen Joyce's Trans which is beautifully and clearly written and traces the history of the current transgender rights movement back to its roots and explains why so many people have concerns.

I find it a problematic argument that some Trans women pose a risk of sexual assault because cis women are also capable of such an act (apparently woman on woman rape accounts for 10% of all such recorded crimes).

I’d be interested to see evidence of the 10% of women (the original kind) committing rape, please.

That's absolute bullshit about 10% of all rapes being women on women crimes. Unless they are recent stats where one of the women recorded women has a penis. Are you starting to see the problem yet?

If I look at one of the issues people seem concerned with - Trans women inhabiting female spaces: I find it a problematic argument that some Trans women pose a risk of sexual assault because cis women are also capable of such an act (apparently woman on woman rape accounts for 10% of all such recorded crimes).

Can you give me a source for this figure? In English law, rape refers to penetration by a penis, which means that women are incapable of committing rape. Perhaps you are thinking of sexual assault? I had a look at the ONS figures to see what they say. If you go here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/datasets/natureofsexualassaultbyrapeorpenetrationenglandandwales

And then download the spreadsheet and go to table 4, it breaks down the offence of rape and/or sexual assault by penetration by sex. It shows that 98.8% of these offences are committed by men.

If men receive 'violent threats' for disregarding and violating women's boundaries, I wouldn't consider that a bad thing. Maybe it'll make them consider how threatened women feel by their presence, if they can possibly dredge up a speck of empathy amongst all their self-centred narcissism.

That said, the 'violent threats' were probably just someone bluntly calling them men. Just like them being blocked from women's spaces is apparently a 'trans genocide' or whatever.

I want to see Eddie Izard and Ricky Gervais go head to head comedy style about these issues!

Yes this is factually totally incorrect.

I would also second Trans by Helen Joyce. She is/was an economist writing for the Financial Times. Her book has been described as a 'page turner' similar to a thriller.

I believe it's the most successful of all the recent books about this ideology.

Shon Faye's advice to school pupils was 'suck dick, gets tits early' and told women to 'enjoy their erasure'. Not the most unbiased of positions, in my view.

I recommend Gender Hurts by Sheila Jeffreys.

He is a bloke. Therefore he shouldn’t be going into women’s toilets.

It’s very simple.

Don't you find it problematic that rape is seen only as penetrative? It's almost like saying that only penetration by penis counts and that digital penetration is a lesser offence. Apparently female on female rape is an invisible crime precisely because of the legal definition, but my logic tells me that women must also be capable of committing acts of sexual violence, DV etc. Statistically i would guess (just a guess) that the statistics for rape by trans are similar to female to female assaults.

However, I don't want to derail the thread and now have some great reading suggestions and will go off and do my homework.

Agree that this is bullshit

Don't you find it problematic that rape is seen only as penetrative? It's almost like saying that only penetration by penis counts and that digital penetration is a lesser offence. Apparently female on female rape is an invisible crime precisely because of the legal definition, but my logic tells me that women must also be capable of committing acts of sexual violence, DV etc. Statistically i would guess (just a guess) that the statistics for rape by trans are similar to female to female assaults.

However, I don't want to derail the thread and now have some great reading suggestions and will go off and do my homework.

Sexual assault is a crime.

I dont know why you would assume that some males would commit sexual crimes at the same rate as women?

Maybe you need to start a new thread, because you do seem to be derailing this one.

Transwoman is a compromise. 'Trans woman' is misogynistic. Just as 'cis woman' is used to offensively imply that women are a subset of some undefinable, nebulous group called 'women', 'trans women' is used to imply that these males are also a subset of 'women'.

(apparently woman on woman rape accounts for 10% of all such recorded crimes).

In women's prisons maybe. In outside life, don't be so ridiculous.

Don't you find it problematic that rape is seen only as penetrative? It's almost like saying that only penetration by penis counts and that digital penetration is a lesser offence.

'counts'!?! of course not - sexual assault carries the same penalties it is no way a 'lesser offence' and is a separate offence because it is a different offence - fingers can't get you pregnant, are significantly less likely to give you an STD etc.

Statistically i would guess (just a guess) that the statistics for rape by trans are similar to female to female assaults.

Why would you say that? Why wouldn't you guess the rate was the same as other males?

In any case we don't need to guess - stats from prisons suggest that they are more likely than other males.

Apologies: I may have got the statistics wrong. I can't remember where I read it and it may only relate to women in prison, but a recent google about female rape brought up some interesting articles. This is one of them. I can see that there is a risk here of demonising lesbian women, which is important to avoid, but there is the beginning of an interesting conversation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/95769958-f129-416c-9610-c8f96504ce77

Sorry for joining in the derail.

Much like anyone can park on a public street, anyone can take a photograph in public. It's one of the reasons celebrities get the big bucks - they lose their anonymity.