London marathon accepts trans women as women

[MrsJamin]

Runner Glenique Frank has just appeared on the BBC footage, clearly male, and has registered as a woman. Sure, he isn't getting a medal any time soon but how is this OK? And don't even get me started about the stupidity of a non binary category - sure fire way for a mediocre male to get a medal! Utterly pathetic.

Yeah, I rolled my eyes at that.

As a female GFA runner this would be a significant issue for me. My husband regularly jokes he could easily qualify if he only had to run the women’s times. It’s scary to think he could identify as a woman for the day and qualify taking a space from a woman.

that’s a concern for me as well

@archie671 these are what you need to provide for the good for age:

• Proof of performance – a link to the results webpage that clearly displays the name, date and qualifying time of the event.
• Proof of age – this can be a copy of either your passport, driving licence or birth certificate.
• Proof of UK residence – this must be an official document proving your residence in the UK, such as a recent utility bill (within the last three months) or copy of your driving licence.

ie no proof of your sex! I think London Marathon do this on purpose because they know it would cause trouble with trans organisations if they refused a place on the basis of registered sex. I bet they know about people like Glen lying on the form and they decided that it didn't matter because they don't believe female runners don't matter. True colours shown right there. If they cared about protecting the women's good for age category they would ask for proof of sex.

*they don't believe female runners matter

Anyway, you can change the sex marker on a passport or driving licence these days without a GRC. Well, the Government calls it gender but it denotes male or female so it's sex.

So the usual official ID documents wouldn't prove anything to the organisers even if they asked.

I did a race fairly recently and there was a NB category. The person who won that category did a really mediocre time that would never have had a podium finish for either men or women.

Presumably the NB categories will start to become more competitive if there is some decent prize money to be won.

Are you suggesting that some people would be motivated to identify as non binary for reasons other than their deeply and sincerely felt experience of their own gender identity?

😲

Okay, from what PPs have said the organisers wouldn't have known, hopefully it has been brought to their attention and they'll edit the data accordingly. I can't imagine there'll be a huge outcry given the recent WA decision.

I don't understand how the runner in question isn't embarrassed by this situation?! I refuse to believe they actually think their physical body is any different from anyone else of their sex. It's as if validation of one's innermost thoughts about gender is a drug and the high one gets from receiving it masks everything else.

What exactly are the London Marathon's rules on transgender entrants and what category they run in?

I can't find anything. Anyone know?

I couldn't find anything - and that's very much on purpose. To say anything will anger some - but surely now WA and British Athletics have followed suit, surely they can just comply with this?

Some thoughts by Ray Blanchard and others in the replies:

28 Jan 2022 - Ray Blanchard @/BlanchardPhD

I and other clinicians have noted an element of exhibitionism in many (although not all) cases of autogynephilia. I think this is one reason why some natal male gender dysphorics insist on participating in women's competitive sports.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BlanchardPhD/status/1487141587159236612

Autogynephilic exhibitionism does not typically involve the penis. It may involve the AGP showing strange women that he is wearing a bra or panties or exposing buttocks fantasized as feminine. In subtler forms, it can involve calling attention to “feminine” traits or activities.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BlanchardPhD/status/1487170600699416577

If one conceptualizes “understanding” as something like “empathy,” it will not take you very far in comprehending autogynephiles. Their emotions and cognitions do not map readily onto those of non-autogynephiles.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BlanchardPhD/status/1487146605102964737

I doubt that autogynephiles always – or even usually – verbalize the complete and explicit thought, “It’s hot to be seen as a woman, doing things that women do, in the company of other women.” Erotic ideas do not need the t’s crossed and the i’s dotted to motivate behavior.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BlanchardPhD/status/1487159902653005831
---

Emma Hilton @/FondOfBeetles

Are AGP males rational? (Regarding pertinent behaviour.)

https://mobile.twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1487161888068841474

Ray Blanchard

I don’t think rationality has much to do with the genesis of any erotic interest. Rationality may influence an individual's readiness to act on an erotic impulse, but it is often outmatched by the subtle and persuasive arguments of desire.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BlanchardPhD/status/1487164616241205257

Get the Hegel outta here @/tradrmum

And this is esp encouraged in modern culture where the indulgence of erotic impulse has been practically elevated to a sacrament that nobody can question no matter what the harms of doing so may be to non-consenting others. All disguised as “healthy” attitudes to sexuality.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tradrmum/status/1487280635655823360
---

Billy "Lizzie" Bragg @/lizzbag

How can they be "dysphorics" and enjoy exhibiting their male dominance at the same time?

Can we just admit they are not actually dysphoric in any meaningful sense?

https://mobile.twitter.com/lizzbag/status/1487160945826832386
--

In summary, in the London Marathon some runners participated in a "W" category so that they could "be validated", ie. get their erotic kicks, by virtue of the organisation rubber-stamping their "W status" and by women being forced to witness their exposing their anatomy and their bodies dressed in "women's clothing" to them.

However, I remain to be convinced that this has nothing whatsoever to do with dominating and humiliating women. There is plenty of evidence that they fucking hate us and envy us while at the same time braying that they are better than us.

@/tradrmum's comment would make sense if the "authorities" (mostly men) were aware that eroticism, rather than "soothing" dysphoria, was the motive, and that they also approved and wished to enable.

That must apply to at least some of them. If the rest are naive and don't know what the "dysphoria" and "gender identity" narratives are hiding then a few pro-kink voices will hold sway.

(Even the naive ones are anyway prepared to force members of the public, especially women, to function as "therapeutic relief" support animals without their knowledge or consent.)

Which raises the further horrific scenario that the Marathon is not just a gigantic porn event for some of the participants but also for some observers.

Glenita?
Glendy?
Glenivia?
Glenonica?

Glenella?

On the pattern of Prunella and Fenella

Since the intention is very obviously to continue using the name Glen with the excuse "It's short for GlenXXXX".

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · Yesterday 16:41

Well done Glenique!

Dear me, I think there's a fence down at Royston Vasey....

Because the elite races are under official rules.

But the mass participation race isn't, and everyone gets a medal. In the mass participation, you choose from genders of male/female/non-binary. Elite and GFA have separate entry procedures

You can't interrogate the results tables by category (you can only search by name or race number unless they've changed it this year)

flaffydaffy · Yesterday 14:13
Normally I see GCs saying that they'd be happy for trans people to campaign for a third category in sport. The non-binary category is a third category so isn't that a good thing
A non-binary female and non-binary male cannot not race each other on an equitable basis. So maybe there needs to be a forth category.

These tweets from the fabulous Mara Yamauchi explain - they relate to Jersey marathon I believe.
Female NBs for this race had to be faster than the women's qualifying time but male NBs can run slower than theirs. As she says - with the males at a massive advantage they can now win 2/3 of the prizes on offer, as why would the female NBs bother joining that category 😡

Here you go.

For the 2023 results you can search by event. name and/or number and also event, gender and (age) category.

https://results.tcslondonmarathon.com/2023/

As people have said - it really really matters. Mr Monkey is a pretty serious marathon runner. Getting a Boston Marathon qualifying time is a really coveted prize amongst serious amateur marathon runners. He has worked really hard to reach this goal and got a qualifying time this month. The women's qualifying time for his age group is a full 30 minutes slower. It has taken him about 18 months sheer hard work to get 30 minutes off his PB. Are you telling me there aren't men who wouldn't consider an easier route?

For sure @Ginmonkeyagain , and they'd be cheats! How could you feel proud of your time without some serious cognitive dissonance... I'm waiting to slip into the next age category so that I move higher up the ranks or have a better chance of GFA or championship entry (currently at the top end of 18-39 by marathon standards so would get my ass whooped by the young whippets in that category). I can't just identify in to being a couple of years older... Not only would it be a really weird thing to do, I'd be a liar and a cheat.

Of course they won’t! Did you not see the rainbow alley, or whatever it was called, all decked out in stonewall flags and #weall runtogether type slogans?

Let’s not forget that the first woman to run in the Boston marathon, Katherine Switzer was literally pushed off the course by men.
Plus ça change 🙄

Thanks - I hadn't spotted that it had changed!

This matters. I am not in the region of GFA, but am reasonably paced if I put in some effort at training. And I like to judge myself against women.

My son's sport when registering him to be able to do competition was clear:

Sex at birth (this is your competition category)
And then chosen gender on there or something. But clear that people compete in birth sex. That should be the rule for all of it.