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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Teacher made to apologise - “good afternoon girls”

207 replies

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:10

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11976891/Female-teacher-forced-apologise-saying-Good-afternoon-girls.html

I’m a teacher and I have to apologise to a student for inadvertently calling a student by birth name and not chosen name. (Was early in school year and was calling the register in auto pilot). Had email from pastoral about how upset I had made them feel. I fell on tenterhooks round this student - especially at parent’s evening and reports as their parents are unaware so I have to use birth names. This is the worst that’s happened to me - I really feel for this teacher.

Female teacher forced to apologise for saying 'Good afternoon, girls'

Bosses at the £20,000-a-year school told the teacher to deliver the mea culpa after her class complained that she said 'good afternoon, girls' at the start of a lesson.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11976891/Female-teacher-forced-apologise-saying-Good-afternoon-girls.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Teachingteacher · 16/04/2023 11:14

OP I’m at teacher at an international school in Europe and my school (and the whole IB actually) is equally captured. I’ve had similar situations to what you describe.

Posting here in solidarity. You’re not alone. I’m seriously considering employment at a Catholic school here because I can’t bear it anymore. Until you’ve had your livelihood threatened (which also affects my visa) for ‘misgendering’, it’s hard to relate.

determinedtomakethiswork · 16/04/2023 11:15

I just couldn't apologise for something like that. That would be going against all my core values.

donquixotedelamancha · 16/04/2023 11:17

I think some posters are overestimating what individual teachers can do.
The Deputy Head or Head of Year makes the call that it is a 'genuine risk' to tell the student's parents.

Just because some people do this, doesn't make it good (or even legal) practice. Teachers are regulated by professional standards, they have a legal duty to pass on safeguarding concerns to the DSL. Random people can't just decide a child is at risk from parents.

We are overdue an Ofsted (last was 14 years ago). I’m just hoping something will be flagged then.

Well then, flag it. They aren't psychic and that's the very least a teacher can do with concerns.

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 11:18

Teachingteacher · 16/04/2023 11:14

OP I’m at teacher at an international school in Europe and my school (and the whole IB actually) is equally captured. I’ve had similar situations to what you describe.

Posting here in solidarity. You’re not alone. I’m seriously considering employment at a Catholic school here because I can’t bear it anymore. Until you’ve had your livelihood threatened (which also affects my visa) for ‘misgendering’, it’s hard to relate.

That sounds so difficult. What a horrible position to be in.

OP posts:
ShowUs · 16/04/2023 11:18

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 16/04/2023 11:10

The irony of a teacher who works at a girls' school having to apologise for calling her pupils girls...

If the child is not considered to be a girl, then it makes no sense for them to be in a girls' school.

Or perhaps the girls' school needs to rebound to call itself a school for ? "girls and some boys"? The mind boggles.

I do have genuine sympathy for children with gender dysphoria, and I would hope that all teachers would be sensitive and kind to a child identifying as trans. However, I don't think we are doing our kids any favours by trying ourselves in knots to pretend that girls aren't girls and boys aren't boys.

I agree.

I think if you want to transition then you cannot attend an all sex school.

I feel like there needs to be a law that all schools go by that states that all schools must treat the students as the sex they were born.

If they want their friends to call them something different or change their name when they’re older then that’s up to them but whilst they’re under 18 they have to be called their names and sex by school staff.

If there is body dysphoria then that should be dealt with as it should be with any student regardless of gender issues.

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 11:21

donquixotedelamancha · 16/04/2023 11:17

I think some posters are overestimating what individual teachers can do.
The Deputy Head or Head of Year makes the call that it is a 'genuine risk' to tell the student's parents.

Just because some people do this, doesn't make it good (or even legal) practice. Teachers are regulated by professional standards, they have a legal duty to pass on safeguarding concerns to the DSL. Random people can't just decide a child is at risk from parents.

We are overdue an Ofsted (last was 14 years ago). I’m just hoping something will be flagged then.

Well then, flag it. They aren't psychic and that's the very least a teacher can do with concerns.

I’m not sure how I can raise this on an individual basis. Ofsted don’t speak to individual teachers without responsibility, and then Heads of Dept are only spoken to about the curriculum. We don’t have teacher surveys like how parents have to fill out. I’m going what they will see something when looking at safeguarding procedures. I understand this all sounds like excuses or justifications but I do feel powerless.

OP posts:
EndIessTea · 16/04/2023 11:23

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted as the poster is not a genuine poster.

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 11:25

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 11:21

I’m not sure how I can raise this on an individual basis. Ofsted don’t speak to individual teachers without responsibility, and then Heads of Dept are only spoken to about the curriculum. We don’t have teacher surveys like how parents have to fill out. I’m going what they will see something when looking at safeguarding procedures. I understand this all sounds like excuses or justifications but I do feel powerless.

Who made / makes the decision that the student is at risk if the parents are informed?

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 11:28

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted as the poster is not a genuine poster.

There are whistle-blowing procedures. They involve a member of SLT (who actually happens to be our DSL) and a governor.

OP posts:
MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 11:28

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 11:25

Who made / makes the decision that the student is at risk if the parents are informed?

The pastoral team.

OP posts:
timetorefresh · 16/04/2023 11:35

I too have taught students where I have to use their trans name in school but am not allowed to mention it to parents. I'm desperately hoping that the government stops social transitioning unless students have been properly assessed by a well trained psychiatrist with no additional agenda.

Mummyoflittledragon · 16/04/2023 11:45

Idk if you feel brave enough to complain about the school, I just googled complain to Ofsted about a school. I presume your school is state run rather than an independent. This is what I got to. You could whistleblow to the DofE. There is a form for that. Click on the link.

If you do, you could also create a specific email just for this purpose. No guilt tripping from me btw. Just wanted to make you aware there are ways do this although it appears not anonymously. I suppose writing anonymously could perhaps work.

EmotionalSupportHyena · 16/04/2023 11:47

Just stumbled across this whilst looking up something else and this is the most recent thread about Gender Ideology in Schools so I am sticking it here.

Reddit comment by Stephen Whittle (transitioned FtM in the 1970s) who self describes as the ‘Architect of the GRA’

This is what professional transactivists are pushing onto the government & civil service.

Teacher made to apologise - “good afternoon girls”
Teacher made to apologise - “good afternoon girls”
Teacher made to apologise - “good afternoon girls”
Teacher made to apologise - “good afternoon girls”
EmotionalSupportHyena · 16/04/2023 11:55

timetorefresh · 16/04/2023 11:35

I too have taught students where I have to use their trans name in school but am not allowed to mention it to parents. I'm desperately hoping that the government stops social transitioning unless students have been properly assessed by a well trained psychiatrist with no additional agenda.

Cass Interim report says social transition is a ‘psychosocial intervention’ and should be supervised by a multi disciplinary team (and only after a gender dysphoria diagnosis has been made via specialist psychiatrist or psychologist).

Hopefully that will be the guidance issued to schools. Just wish the government would hurry the fuck up!

hattie43 · 16/04/2023 11:57

I read this earlier , disgraceful.

Justme56 · 16/04/2023 11:58

There was a recent post about a girl who had desisted but couldn’t tell the school because of fear of the teachers reaction. Then there’s this situation where teachers have to go along with not telling parents because of an unknown about their reaction. Other children are coerced into keeping secrets too. It’s a complete mess.

Boomboom22 · 16/04/2023 12:09

Ofsted most certainly do staff surveys that cover this sort of stuff under safeguarding and also staff wb. When they come you'll get it the night of notice.
My previous school was really bad for this, part of the reason I moved, with certain teachers trying to get gc teachers in trouble with slt. Although 1 was captured the others were more stuck, as is the case now although everyone I gc they are still wary and changing as the tide does tbh.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/04/2023 12:12

Some terrible stories on here, all demonstrating how children are being let down by those in thrall to this ideology. Two written by a clinical psychologist about the psychological damage that social transitioning does to children:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

When a teenager says they're transgender - Transgender Trend

What's the best approach when a teenager says they're transgender? Are there risks in the affirmation and social transition approach?

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender

EsmaCannonball · 16/04/2023 12:12

Teachingteacher · 16/04/2023 11:14

OP I’m at teacher at an international school in Europe and my school (and the whole IB actually) is equally captured. I’ve had similar situations to what you describe.

Posting here in solidarity. You’re not alone. I’m seriously considering employment at a Catholic school here because I can’t bear it anymore. Until you’ve had your livelihood threatened (which also affects my visa) for ‘misgendering’, it’s hard to relate.

I know people with children at Catholic schools in the UK and those schools are still in thrall to this ideology. It's very Cultural Revolution or Year Zero, with the adults in fear of the children and the students enacting some kind of existential vengeance upon their elders.

In terms of religious schools, they can be quite strict so identifying as trans appeals to the kind of student who wants to exception themselves from the rules or elevate themselves above the obedient hoi polloi. I know, for example, of a friend's children at a Catholic school where the girls cannot wear jewellery or make-up but boys who identify as girls can. Trans-identified students can also remove themselves from other rules and activities. For many of these students the sanctioned rule-breaking is the entire point. People who identify as trans don't want to be treated as members of the opposite sex but rather as special, higher status members of the opposite sex. It's notable that the girls in the OP want to identify out of girlhood but not out of all the advantages of female-only education, especially when they are obviously treated as the highest caste of student.

Shelefttheweb · 16/04/2023 12:15

What does it say to girls when the word that describes them, girls, because a dirty word? How can they take pride in being girls?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/04/2023 12:18

People really do need to whistle blow. I know that there are a number of parents itching to hold schools accountable for socially transitioning their child in secret. What's holding them back is their love and concern for their vulnerable child at the centre of this. If you're caught up in this as a parent or teacher, please consider contacting one of the numerous groups with a child safeguarding centred approach for help. Parents are no longer alone:

Transgender Trend: https://www.transgendertrend.com/

Safe Schools Alliance: https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

Sex Matters: this is a link to their schools guidance
https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance/

Guidance for Schools - Sex Matters

Sex Matters and Transgender Trend have developed new guidance for schools.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/04/2023 12:26

Of all the things that happened, this happened the least. Come on. I'm a secondary teacher and I constantly refer to groups of one sex as "ladies" or "gentlemen". We all do. I don't believe this story.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/04/2023 12:30

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/04/2023 12:26

Of all the things that happened, this happened the least. Come on. I'm a secondary teacher and I constantly refer to groups of one sex as "ladies" or "gentlemen". We all do. I don't believe this story.

The quickest of googles will show you that this has been happening in some schools for years. The Mail article details the GDST guidance way back in 2016.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/12/dont-call-pupils-girls-many-gender-options-says-headteacher/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3649181/Don-t-calls-girls-girls-young-women-case-offends-pupils-questioning-gender-identity-schools-told.html

‘I don’t call pupils girls because there are too many gender options’, says headteacher

Liz Laybourn, who leads a single-sex private school, says she also thinks twice about using the word 'daughters' in letters to parents

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/12/dont-call-pupils-girls-many-gender-options-says-headteacher

ValancyRedfern · 16/04/2023 12:31

borntobequiet · 16/04/2023 09:12

Must be hard to stand out against it.

I don’t think the public realise properly how powerless individual classroom teachers are in school and how very much more difficult senior leadership can make what is already a difficult job. It’s strange how many senior leaders in schools seem to actively dislike classroom teachers and support staff and actively undermine them, especially with regard to unworkable behaviour policies that put all the onus on the teacher and minimise the role of SLT.
There’s a weird tendency for schools to jump on whatever the latest educational or social fad, fancy or bandwagon comes by and impose it willy-nilly on everyone. When it’s just brain gym or learning styles the waves of nonsense generally retreat leaving only useless paperwork washed up on the shores of the curriculum. But the constant forced the acceptance of all this rubbish slowly erodes critical thinking, and the propensity of schools to fall back on rigid thinking means that genuinely damaging stuff like genderism can easily take hold.

I agree. I am in a strong position because I have been at the school 12 years and am reasonably senior (not SLT), also it is impossible to recruit staff in my area and we are operating on roughly half teachers being (generally terrible) supply/cover supervisors, so I'm gambling that they'd be mad to get rid of me. I am also lucky that I have a partner and would cope (in the short term) if I were to be fired. The school NEU rep is also totally on my side, so I have support even if not from the Union itself. These are very real calculations I have made.

I do have sympathy with teachers who don't feel able to stand up like this, however I also feel we as a profession need to be braver. I have 'peaked' many members of staff simply by chats in the staffroom and things I share on Facebook. I've had the odd disagreement with younger staff, but I'd say more staff agree with me than don't. The chances are OP there are several other staff in your school who agree with you. Try and find them.

Flowerly · 16/04/2023 13:01

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 16/04/2023 12:26

Of all the things that happened, this happened the least. Come on. I'm a secondary teacher and I constantly refer to groups of one sex as "ladies" or "gentlemen". We all do. I don't believe this story.

You need to wake up and fast.