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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Teacher made to apologise - “good afternoon girls”

207 replies

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:10

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11976891/Female-teacher-forced-apologise-saying-Good-afternoon-girls.html

I’m a teacher and I have to apologise to a student for inadvertently calling a student by birth name and not chosen name. (Was early in school year and was calling the register in auto pilot). Had email from pastoral about how upset I had made them feel. I fell on tenterhooks round this student - especially at parent’s evening and reports as their parents are unaware so I have to use birth names. This is the worst that’s happened to me - I really feel for this teacher.

Female teacher forced to apologise for saying 'Good afternoon, girls'

Bosses at the £20,000-a-year school told the teacher to deliver the mea culpa after her class complained that she said 'good afternoon, girls' at the start of a lesson.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11976891/Female-teacher-forced-apologise-saying-Good-afternoon-girls.html

OP posts:
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MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 13:41

donquixotedelamancha · 16/04/2023 13:34

Asking/encouraging in my school means “do it”.

No, it doesn't- unless you allow it to. You are a qualified teacher, you can't be told to do anything against your professional judgement of the child's best interest.

(I recently apologised to a child for exactly the same thing. Entirely my idea because I judged that I would only get a very volatile child, new to me, on side by meeting her on her terms. Now I've got a decent relationship with her. Presumably this member of SLT thought they were helping)

That incident has gone now, I wouldn't personally be too bothered by the 'making me apologise' so much as the issue of what's happening to the kids.

If your school is transitioning kids, without parental requests to do so and without informing them, it is your professional duty to whistleblow. Just make sure you know the full situation first, follow the written procedures and the advice of a union Case Officer.

I know that sounds really selfish.

I know exactly how hard things get. You do not sound at all selfish. Look after your own wellbeing and do only what you can- but you can probably do more than you think.

Thanks @donquixotedelamancha.

I will seek advice from a union case worker - thank you. I want to be proactive, both being a professional and a parent. You’ve given my lots of food for thought!

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 16/04/2023 13:41

At this point I feel like DfE should be in special measures. Or broken up. Or overseen by a department capable of both engaging brain, and saying no to TRAs both inside and out.

It's not that simple. Imagine if the entire NHS was run by central government with no NHS England, no NIHCE, no CMO, no commisioning bodies or trusts- just indiviual practices and hospitals.

Schools used to be overseen by LEAs, now most of their function is gone and the DfE is on a skeleton staff. There really isn't much of a governance or management structure at all outside of unaccountable academy chains and individual heads.

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 13:45

donquixotedelamancha · 16/04/2023 13:36

We don’t challenge pupils anymore in case it affects their mental health

Whatever you do, find another school ASAP.

Tbh, a lot of staff have left this academic year. I don’t think it’s to do with trans issues but general behaviour.

Sorry everyone. What started as general frustrations has turned into a right pity-fear about my working conditions!

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 16/04/2023 13:46

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 13:41

Thanks @donquixotedelamancha.

I will seek advice from a union case worker - thank you. I want to be proactive, both being a professional and a parent. You’ve given my lots of food for thought!

Best of luck. Write down the conversations you have. When speakign to SLT- speak their language: best interests of the kid, best practice (and take the governement guidance with you), professional standards- very hard for them to argue with that.

ResisterRex · 16/04/2023 13:48

DfE cannot be on a skeleton staff such that this guidance hasn't been done for years. That just can't be it. We know they were Stonewalled to the eyeballs. We also know they did manage to produce some decent non-statutory guidance on planning sex education classes. They can do this. But should they? Or do they even want to? Whatever, someone has to get a grip and it cannot be allowed to drift any longer.

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 13:50

Why are DfE so captured?

Is it an alliance to the left thing

Gender ideology seems utterly rife in left organisations and parties

Shelefttheweb · 16/04/2023 13:51

We don’t challenge pupils anymore in case it affects their mental health - about anything!

My nephew has OCD, the advice my DSis and BIL received is very clear; do not accommodate his obsessions and compulsions. It is easier said than done but if you accommodate them then you validate them (eg that his sister will die if his clothes get contaminated from touching against something else deemed ‘dirty’ which is pretty much everything). And if you validate an obsession it just gets worse - to the point he ends up hospitalised.

Not challenging pupils may well affect their mental health negatively.

EndIessTea · 16/04/2023 13:53

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted as the poster is not a genuine poster.

Shelefttheweb · 16/04/2023 13:54

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 13:41

Thanks @donquixotedelamancha.

I will seek advice from a union case worker - thank you. I want to be proactive, both being a professional and a parent. You’ve given my lots of food for thought!

Take advice from your union but also be wary of how captured they are.

Shelefttheweb · 16/04/2023 14:00

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 13:50

Why are DfE so captured?

Is it an alliance to the left thing

Gender ideology seems utterly rife in left organisations and parties

This is to me one of the most shocking aspects of all this. DoE is a civil service department and as such are required to be politically neutral and put in place the policies of the elected government. Same with other civil service run organisations like the NHS. Not doing means there has been a coup where our elected government is ignored and unelected activists are in charge instead.

Soapyspuds · 16/04/2023 14:04

Teacher needs to change their chosen name each day and give pupils detention for using the incorrect name.

dcbc1234 · 16/04/2023 14:05

borntobequiet · 16/04/2023 09:12

Must be hard to stand out against it.

I don’t think the public realise properly how powerless individual classroom teachers are in school and how very much more difficult senior leadership can make what is already a difficult job. It’s strange how many senior leaders in schools seem to actively dislike classroom teachers and support staff and actively undermine them, especially with regard to unworkable behaviour policies that put all the onus on the teacher and minimise the role of SLT.
There’s a weird tendency for schools to jump on whatever the latest educational or social fad, fancy or bandwagon comes by and impose it willy-nilly on everyone. When it’s just brain gym or learning styles the waves of nonsense generally retreat leaving only useless paperwork washed up on the shores of the curriculum. But the constant forced the acceptance of all this rubbish slowly erodes critical thinking, and the propensity of schools to fall back on rigid thinking means that genuinely damaging stuff like genderism can easily take hold.

The Trade Unions should be protecting their members' employment rights and terms and conditions. That they have abdicated their responsibility on this because they have normalised an anti-science ideology is sinister indeed.
Unions are supposed to represent all their members who have paid their subs, even the ones who have 'transgressed'.

dcbc1234 · 16/04/2023 14:11

'Parents absolutely need to know, unless there’s a child protection issue.'
This 'get out' needs to be removed surely?
Schools could be choosing to define a 'child protection issue' as the pupil says their parents 'will react badly'.
If it is to stay, then it needs to be defined/nailed down as a pre-existing legitimate cause for concern e.g. as 'prior social services involvement for violence against the child by parent'.

Boomboom22 · 16/04/2023 14:12

On trans stuff be so careful with unions. You are safer with dsl and their knowledge tbh. We just need to quietly push in the interests of the child with the tide, be part of the tide but in a caring way that is always clearly within the standards. Very very hard though!

EmotionalSupportHyena · 16/04/2023 14:14

dcbc1234 · 16/04/2023 14:11

'Parents absolutely need to know, unless there’s a child protection issue.'
This 'get out' needs to be removed surely?
Schools could be choosing to define a 'child protection issue' as the pupil says their parents 'will react badly'.
If it is to stay, then it needs to be defined/nailed down as a pre-existing legitimate cause for concern e.g. as 'prior social services involvement for violence against the child by parent'.

if a kid says home isn’t safe for any reason it surely necessitates an onward safeguarding referral?

Shelefttheweb · 16/04/2023 14:14

If instead of being a lobby group we considered them more like a political party; how would we feel about government civil service departments getting training by the conservative party, trying to get conservative Party supporting workplace of the year awards, and applying for conservative Party award points - all following a landslide election by the Labour Party. And for those departments to ignore any Labour Party ministers statements and implement Conservative policies, ask the Conservative Party for input on any matters, get all civil servant to wear lanyards with the conservative logo and build staff networks for Conservative Party members….

That is what is happening at the moment with LBGTQ groups.

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 14:16

It’s invasive and atm we’re feeling powerless to change it. It’s madness

Labour will be worse, I fear that even more

These lobby groups are harming dc and I’m not sure what can be done

dcbc1234 · 16/04/2023 14:17

Boomboom22 · 16/04/2023 14:12

On trans stuff be so careful with unions. You are safer with dsl and their knowledge tbh. We just need to quietly push in the interests of the child with the tide, be part of the tide but in a caring way that is always clearly within the standards. Very very hard though!

What is dsl?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/04/2023 14:18

@MrsMurphyIWish im not a teacher & you’ve had brilliant advice from posters who are & who understand your position so I just wanted to send you an unmumsnetty hug 💐 it must be so stressful to have to work in this environment

borntobequiet · 16/04/2023 14:18

every day a mental health activity is completed

As someone who has suffered MH issues in the past, I can confidently say that that would drive me mad.

Uncivilserver · 16/04/2023 14:19

re DfE, don’t underestimate the impact of churn in political leadership. This article gives a flavour https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-reshuffles-meet-ministers-education-school-leaders

Since 2016, DfE has had 9 Secretaries of State - average tenure well under a year.

I would always encourage people to write to ministers and/or to their MP (depending on the MP) with calmly worded, evidenced concerns.

Meet the new DfE minister, and the next one…

Some education leaders attended five introductory meetings with Department for Education ministers in six months as government turmoil led to repeated reshuffles

https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-reshuffles-meet-ministers-education-school-leaders

dcbc1234 · 16/04/2023 14:21

EmotionalSupportHyena · 16/04/2023 14:14

if a kid says home isn’t safe for any reason it surely necessitates an onward safeguarding referral?

Well yes. I take it you agree with me. No loving parent who has given birth to a gorgeous baby boy or girl is going to be 'delighted' to hear that their DC wants to try to change their 'sex'/gender so this likely normal logical shock/displeasure should not be a reason for keeping parents in the dark.

borntobequiet · 16/04/2023 14:26

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 13:50

Why are DfE so captured?

Is it an alliance to the left thing

Gender ideology seems utterly rife in left organisations and parties

It’s not a left thing. People from all sides of politics push it.

There are female Conservatives such as Caroline Noakes and Penny Mordaunt who are vociferous trans allies. Similarly there are Labour people like Rosie Duffield who disagree with it.

Presenting it as a left/right divide is simplistic and dangerous because it muddies the waters and confuses the issues. For example, gender critical people are accused of supporting the alt-right, which is not true.

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 14:31

borntobequiet · 16/04/2023 14:26

It’s not a left thing. People from all sides of politics push it.

There are female Conservatives such as Caroline Noakes and Penny Mordaunt who are vociferous trans allies. Similarly there are Labour people like Rosie Duffield who disagree with it.

Presenting it as a left/right divide is simplistic and dangerous because it muddies the waters and confuses the issues. For example, gender critical people are accused of supporting the alt-right, which is not true.

I don’t think so. I look at Welsh Labour, SNP, Greens and o/s at NZ, Tas, Canada

It is predominantly aligned to the left

I’m not happy with recent response and guidelines from gov which could be stronger but Labour ‘no one is talking about it’, rights hoarding dinosaurs, we don’t know GSCE biology is more concerning.

Flowerly · 16/04/2023 14:44

I completely agree with MarshaBradyo that this is being pushed hard by the Left. Really hard.

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