Would you ever consider a transwoman a woman?

[ZeldaFighter]

If a person had transitioned from male to female early in life and had lived quietly and unobtrusively as a woman for say 20 or 30 years, would you consider offering that person the status of "womanhood"?

Would you go on a girls night in a group with them?

Would you think differently if the person had had gender reassignment surgery?

What if they did actually pass?

What if they had a husband and kids?

This isn't a gotcha and I don't know the answers. I am instinctively annoyed by the taking away of women's things but I am also dismayed by the hurt and harm potentially caused to trans people. I'm trying to decide my own position and wondering if there are compromise positions. Apologies if this has been asked before and thank you for your thoughts.

Trans women need gyno services???

Not in the world of facts though do they pet.

Because they are not women are they

It's really simple

It really does speak volumes that a poster adamant that they view their TW friend (of a cousin) as a woman I’m every single way - and who insists anyone else is narrow minded - is making statements about trans women needing gynaecology.

The knowledge of basic biological is really not strong with this one. Is it?

On the other hand, all transwomen who have kept their prostates should remember that they can still get prostate problems, including cancer.

One urologist wrote about that and the fact that many of the 'red alert' test values might not be the same for transwomen as they are for men who are not taking cross-sex hormones, and that there needs to be much more attention to this.

This made me wonder why the trans activists are not highlighting health care problems such as this one the same way that they highlight cervical cancer, endo etc. by erasing the female sex...

“Trans women need gyno services too, so I'm not sure there is a male gynecology ward.”

Your cousin’s friend does not have a uterus, ovaries, a cervix, a vagina (an inverted penis or part of the colon does not function in the same way at as a vagina).

I wonder what you think your cousin’s friend could possibly need from gynaecology?

Men with breast cancer are not typically treated on gynae wards, oncology is more likely.

Google is free.

https://www.uclahealth.org/medical-services/gender-health/programs-services/gynecological-care

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23707806/

https://www.draliabadi.com/womens-health-blog/why-is-transgender-gynecology-important/

A trans woman who’s had reconstructive genital surgery (commonly referred to as “bottom surgery”) will still need gynecological care for her new vulva and vagina. Your OB/GYN can also prescribe and monitor estrogen or progesterone hormone replacement therapy (HRT), test for STIs, and screen for intimate partner violence. In addition, anyone with breast tissue needs regular breast cancer screenings – especially if you have a family history of breast cancer.
Some trans women undergoing gender-affirming hormone therapy experience PMS-like symptoms due to increased estrogen levels. While they won’t actually menstruate, they may still benefit from consulting with an OB/GYN about their new symptoms.

you're willfully ignorant lol.

That’s in the US where they can charge cash for it.

Here, it’s urology and the GIC, not OB/GYNAE.

Kinell. As if we don't already have about the most dilapidated state of maternity care in modern Europe, there are now serious suggestions of investing in services to humour some fantasy for people who don't need it.

The fact that women's healthcare is already reduced to such a state should be a national scandal - and doubtless would be, if it related to male-specific medical care - without adding insult to bloody injury.

It defies understanding that people/activists are making these points entirely seriously, much less erasing any reference to women from the medical literature and reducing human beings to their base anatomy. AND it's 11 days past April 1st ...

Transwomen do NOT need gynae services, they do not have ovaries, fallopian tubes, uterus or vagina. At most they have a poor mock up of a vagina that is not made up of vaginal or vulval tissue. Completely unnatural and not designed to do what vaginas do

No I dont think TWAW. And I would get a kick in the face if I said that in my own house.

Here you go, you silly misinformed sausage!

https://www.nhs.uk/livewell/transhealth/documents/gender-dysphoria-guide-for-gps-and-other-health-care-staff.pdf

As you can see, the only reference to gynaecology is for FTM patients.

HTH!

What does 'living as a woman' mean when on this site? Does it mean cleaning the loos, making the breakfasts, making sure the kids have their books and bags and packed lunches ready for school? For years, and years, and years, until they leave for Uni and then you still worry about them?

Or does it mean some awful frilly AGP fantasy of our lives? Dressing up, make up, tights....

Does 'living as a woman' mean pulling a scrunchie through your greasy hair, and holding your 2 year old whilst she throws up into the loo at 2am then cleaning it up, getting her back to sleep, then getting everyone in the house up and ready for the week, getting to work, shopping on the way home, doing the dinner and going to bed to do it all again the next day?

Or does it mean being so empathetic and 'kind' that we're willing even to indulge men suffering from AGP to sink onto the sofa with us, during the rare night off with other women, and pretend he's a woman because otherwise his feelings will be hurt?

Does it mean accepting the insult that this fakery adds to our lives?

Would you ask an African American, was it ok if someone 'identified' as black, and adopted stereotypical behaviours, and dressed to 'appear black', and live as 'black'...would you even dream of going on a forum for African Americans and asking that question?

The NHS MtF ‘bottom’ surgeons are urologists rather than plastics (and andrology & micro surgeries for FTM). I think they are usually plastics in the US though?

There is one general plastics bloke in private practice but he’s the one who does all sorts (facial surgery and mastectomy) and recently got in trouble with the GMC.

do you feel stupid yet?

“If a person had transitioned from male to female early in life and had lived quietly and unobtrusively as a woman for say 20 or 30 years, would you consider offering that person the status of "womanhood"?

Would you go on a girls night in a group with them?

Would you think differently if the person had had gender reassignment surgery?

What if they did actually pass?

What if they had a husband and kids”

No I would not consider “offering that person womanhood”. It isn’t mine to offer.

Absolutely not, it wouldn’t be a girls night out and a night spent pandering is not my idea of fun.

No, GRS is purely cosmetic surgery. Apart from which how would I know if someone had had GRS?

No, also I don’t believe that passing happens in real life, there are too many clues when you are physically in proximity and interacting with someone.

No. What difference does martial status make?
If those children were acquired through renting a womb and purchasing them rather than fathering them in the traditional way then I would have an even lower opinion of this person. If these children were being expected to call their father “mother” then that would also lower my opinion of this person. Where would the mother be? Would she be a trans widow or a woman trapped in an abusive relationship?

Why should a gynaecologist be expected to treat issues arising in surgically altered male genitals? As other posters have said, it is not a vulva/vagina, and nor is there a cervix/uterus/ovaries/fallopian tubes. There is a cosmetic approximation of female genitals, made from the male’s own genital tissues. Why would a gynaecologist be an expert in this sort of set-up? Would you expect gynaecologists to undergo extra training so that they can treat men’s ‘neovaginas’?

She shouldn’t, seeing as your references are all irrelevant to the UK.

Our doctors don’t play along for the money.

@Squanchhouse Did you actually read the links? The first one is 90% transman focused and the other 10% of services would be provided by the surgical team that performed the original surgery.

The other two refer to services for transmen apart from a passing mention of PML like symptoms that a gynecologist could help with. This would be done in an outpatient setting .

Next?

No

No need to name call. I understand it's frustrating to be proven wrong, but we need to act like adults.

It’s not gynae care, though. It’s cosmetic surgery care.

They’re fake organs.

Silly billy!

This is the nub of the matter. I'm sure TRAs would cite a gynaecologist's unwillingness to treat a male with SRS as 'transphobia'. Whereas any sane analysis would take into account that gynaecologists are trained (over many many years) in the various medical issues that affect female reproductive physiology and would, quite rightly, be unwilling to practise outwith their area of expertise, because doing so would put them in a position of knowingly delivering unsafe care.

I guess it depends whether you regard psychological validation as more important than actual safe clinical treatment. Not a tough choice for most of us, but clearly some people feel otherwise. Which is their prerogative, but it's not reasonable to expect medics to cast aside their professional integrity in order to go along with this narrative.