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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

[RNZ] Spike in online hate toward trans community after Posie Parker visit - researchers

165 replies

landOFconfusion · 04/04/2023 00:48

For those who aren’t familiar with the New Zealand media landscape, RNZ is the equivalent of the BBC. It’s a state funded public service broadcaster.

There is an interesting article on RNZ today about the real and measurable effects that ideologues like Posie Parker have on creating and intensifying hatred towards marginalised groups.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/487306/spike-in-online-hate-toward-trans-community-after-posie-parker-visit-researchers

Spike in online hate toward trans community after Posie Parker visit - researchers

Analysts monitoring online extremism say the anti-trans rights activist's visit sparked a massive increase in the level of online hatred directed at the trans community.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/487306/spike-in-online-hate-toward-trans-community-after-posie-parker-visit-researchers

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Misstache · 04/04/2023 02:45

Misstache · 04/04/2023 02:41

Are you sure it wasn’t JK Rowling’s fault too? /sarcasm

Lol I was joking then I read the article and they did manage to blame JK Rowling.

Pocodaku · 04/04/2023 02:46

Genocidal?? This rhetoric is immensely offensive to communities who have actually been targeted for genocidal acts. Meanwhile the TRAs repeatedly indulge in literal violence.

CremeEggQueen · 04/04/2023 02:50

Trans people in the UK are far more likely to be murderers than murdered
Do you have a source for that or is it something you've come up with?

Eyerollcentral · 04/04/2023 02:56

CremeEggQueen · 04/04/2023 02:50

Trans people in the UK are far more likely to be murderers than murdered
Do you have a source for that or is it something you've come up with?

How many trans women have been killed in the UK vs actual women in the last year? 👀
Didn’t you see the statistics about the number of convicted trans women who had committed sexual offences vs the general male population? What did you think about those stats?

haXXor · 04/04/2023 04:24

CremeEggQueen · 04/04/2023 02:50

Trans people in the UK are far more likely to be murderers than murdered
Do you have a source for that or is it something you've come up with?

Murder rate of trans victims: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

Comparison of rate of being murdered versus murdering: http://transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/16/trans-homicides-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers

FactCheck: how many trans people are murdered in the UK?

Let’s take a look at the statistics.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

EpicChaos · 04/04/2023 05:02

LOLz :-D Genocide??? If anything, trans are genociding themselves, ( much to the great amusement of the British working class, who see this as a mostly narcissistic, middle class thing. ) what with the hormones they're pumping into themselves and the unnecessary surgeries they're having, which sterilise them into the bargain!
If they're a bit miffed because they're not getting all the sympathy at the moment, perhaps they should reflect on their own behaviour, attacking women in such a despicable fashion!

Thanks for posting the musicz Madame Cholet @CryptoFascistMadameCholet I'm partial to a bit of Genesis :-) I have to say i did sing that line with a bit of gusto ( much to the chagrin of those within earshot lol ) when i went to see them on tour this last time round.
Of course, it's not lost on me, bearing in mind the subject matter of the thread, that Genesis is the first book of the bible and if we're going to be forced to follow an ideology/someone elses belief system, i think on the whole, i'd really rather go along with...

" 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them. "

Male and female! No halfway house and indeed no ornate buildings, just men and women, boys and girls. I'll stick to that thanks!

As for ' I know what i like ( in your wardrobe ) ' , again considering the subject of the thread, least said, soonest mended! lol

nettie434 · 04/04/2023 05:20

There is a definite pattern of spikes in online abuse being related to events in the news (probably the most well known example is footballers being abused after a high profile game) so it's not unreasonable to investigate if Posey Parker's visit to New Zealand affected online abuse towards transgender people. However, surely even the most powerful data mining tools don't produce results this quickly? I also think the article should have included an explanation of what the Disinformation Project is and how it is funded and I agree with the posters who suggested 'genocidal' is not the right term the researcher should have used.

Happylittlechicken · 04/04/2023 05:30

CremeEggQueen · 04/04/2023 02:50

Trans people in the UK are far more likely to be murderers than murdered
Do you have a source for that or is it something you've come up with?

How do you know? Apparently we can’t tell if someone is trans so how do we know transpeople are being murdered?

Happylittlechicken · 04/04/2023 05:52

@landOFconfusion when you say online hate do you mean trans rights activists being called out for violence and bigotry towards women, and nor being told how brave and stunning they are, or do you mean people are threatening them with rape, murder and assault. If the first… that’s literally not hate, and the second… why should they be upset if people treat them as they have treated women? You seemed very keen to minimise actual violence against women, so why should you be upset when we don’t take the “literal violence” of words on a screen seriously?

EdgeOfACoin · 04/04/2023 06:45

The literal violence I saw came from male-bodied people and their supporters against women.

Women are not going around punching mtf transitioners and dousing them in hot liquid. Women are saying that biology is real and people cannot change sex.

Punching and throwing liquid over people is violent. A good example of male aggression, I would say.

Stating biological facts - that being a woman isn't a thought or a feeling, but an adult human who is of the sex that produces large gametes instead of small gametes - is not "hate" or "literal violence".

I don't see any trans communities calling out the violence against KJK. Are there any? From what I can see, any criticism is tempered by an undercurrent of "well she rather deserved it".

Look what KJK made these poor oppressed people do.

I take a dim view of trans communities not condemning the violence. I would be happy to change my mind if there has been an unequivocal denouncement of the behaviour on display in New Zealand by the trans community.

Helleofabore · 04/04/2023 06:46

That article is full of hyperbole and high voltage emoting. It is incredibly dishonest.

And I don’t just mean continuing to write that Kellie Jay and the women who support her are ‘anti-trans’. But hey, let’s not erase women and the fact that we are pro-women right? No erasure of women happening here! Am I right?

I hope that anyone issuing threats and abuse to Lal or anyone is prosecuted. As long as the same rigour and process is given to all those attacked and threatened on the day and before and after the event. ie. Women who attended and any supporters of those women .

However, let’s consider this article.

”Analysts monitoring online extremism say it has hit new lows with one researcher describing it as "genocidal".”

As other posters have said, where is the link to the research and the measures they have used, including the detail of what constitutes ‘abuse’. Because if stating someone is male when they are male is abuse, then that would of course significantly skew the data with that one single parameter.

It defies logic to then state there has been a spike in abuse when it is merely people pointing out ‘male violence’. In fact, it is extremely hypocritical and concerning that a NZ government funded organisation would class discussions of male violence as ‘abuse towards a male perpetrator of assault’.

So, it needs to be investigated as to whether this is happening.

“They say the content is now being widely distributed by anti-mandate and anti-government groups.”

”And there are fears violence could spill out into the world.”

Given the degree of dishonesty in that article, and the coverage and the government reaction, is it any wonder that ‘anti-mandate’ and other groups are at heightened activity. Gosh, OP, you have been highly motivated here on MN and on twitter it seems to be gleefully pointing out that Sean Plunket has been suspended from twitter.

Add to that that an independent radio station was closed down while still transmitting last week, I wonder if these actions have added to the issues. That people living in NZ feel that they are being limited to propaganda style content from media and that there is no alternative voices being heard.

Sounds like an own goal for stirring up discontent and anger that the government needs to be responsible for.

In fact, here is the NZ PM stating that he would have been right there supporting the protestors!

https://twitter.com/rosey_nz/status/1640786474953232388?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

What a great man! To support a mob who used extreme violence and intimidation to silence women. And he said this after knowing about at least one assault and that the police declared they couldn’t protect a woman who was part of organising the rally. In fact, by then it was also known that other organisers had been doxxed and were fearful of their safety.

Does anyone know the demographics of the ‘anti- mandate’ style groups? Are women, in particular Kellie Jay Keen, again being blamed for male violence?

Certainly the NZ PM and the government has not shown themselves in any positive light this past week.

Is it all clicking into place yet? That this article is so dishonest that the RNZ themselves are adding to the discontent they are trying to blame on women.

Here was another gem.

Meanwhile, the researchers say the amount of hate being directed at the Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is now as bad as that towards former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

Now, I have to say that I hope Davidson recovers completely from being hit by a motorbike, and if that was a deliberate act, then that driver needs to be brought to justice. However, Marama Davidson made an outrageous statement and I would suggest that the people responsible for that ‘hate’ are not feminists. But men. So, more male violence that this article has lumped on women and in particular, Kellie Jay Keen.

”Shaneel Lal was a central figure in the protest against the visit by Keen-Minshull, known as Posie Parker.”

”Late last week Shaneel Lal was named Young New Zealander of the Year for there for work for rainbow communities - including the fight to ban conversion therapy.”

”The spotlight has prompted a backlash.”

Again, Lal should not be threatened at all. However, this is a male person who posted videos of themself celebrating male violence. And still received an award!

What a great message for NZ women, eh? This male person organises an protest to silence NZ women, it gets out of control, this male celebrates that a woman has been assaulted and that a women’s rally has been marked by so much violence and intimidation…. And still is rewarded by NZ.

The person interviewed for this ramped up the hyperbole and weaponised ‘genocide’. How offensive for survivors of genocide? Not sure that any person using that word in conjunction to women speaking has ever given a thought to those people who have survived it or who have lost loved one to genocide.

”He said the extremity of the content was more characteristic of far right and neo-fascist and neo-Nazi groups, and the fact it was now being taken up by groups that flourished because of Covid measures was "really worrying".”

”He said the vitriol directed at the trans community could be described as "genocidal".”

But then again this person also effectively calls anti-mandate groups neo-fascist and neo-Nazis. Ummm… if someone is anti-mandate wouldn’t that be the opposite to fascist?

Sounds to me that this person interviewed is throwing around current buzz words and phrases to create click bait.

oh wait…

”Disinformation Project researcher Dr Sanjana Hattotuwa” was the person saying these things!

You couldn’t make it up. A Disinformation Project member using these words and comparisons.

And OP has found all this convincing?

https://twitter.com/rosey_nz/status/1640786474953232388?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

Helleofabore · 04/04/2023 07:00

I think that posting this article was just another example of the misogynistic and dishonest style of posting from this poster.

This article is very clear that the writer and the Disinformation Project researcher Dr Sanjana Hattotuwa blames Kellie Jay Keen and the women who support her as being to blame for the male violence that occurred at the Auckland Let Women Speak event. In fact, do we know who broke the other woman’s foot? Because so far, it seems all perpetrators of the violence, including the woman who was pushed over and then her and her 10 year daughter were subjected to the nipple rubbing were male!

What a surprise!

Also, who organised the protest? Was it all Lal? Shouldn’t the violence and the intimidation be directly under Lal’s control? Lal’s responsibility? Or did Lal just take the time to celebrate the silencing of women ?

Either way, this article blames women, and particularly Kellie Jay Keen, and actually JK Rowling it seems too, for male violence. Which is saying that Kellie Jay Keen deserved the violence directed at her.

This poster spent most of yesterday typing out ‘both sides fallacy’ posts. Saying that Kellie Jay ‘wanted the violence’!

Between that, the fact that this poster victim blamed Fred Sargeant for his own severe assault because he peacefully protested at a pride event, an event he was instrumental in organising, I think readers have a good indication of the motivations of and tactics used by this poster.

Mind you, I’d be highly embarrassed posting this article as some kind of intelligent discussion point.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 04/04/2023 07:05

When institutions promote an extremist ideology that affects 51% of the population expect some negative comments.

magicthree · 04/04/2023 07:13

Avarua2 · 04/04/2023 01:49

Who knew that New Zealanders are so politically immature that the arrival of one woman from the UK to the country has thrown it into turmoil.

No. New Zealanders everywhere are talking (whispering) in private about transgender politics. All the politicians know its a hot potato. None of them will touch it with a shitty stick. Pack of chicken shits.

Are they really? I actually live in NZ and haven't heard one person, ever, talking (or whispering) either in private or in public. I find it fascinating how NZers who are living abroad always know (or rather, think they know) what every single NZer is doing in their absence.

Backstreets · 04/04/2023 07:15

if the protestors had let women speak and kept a respectful distance you wouldn’t be seeing this.

Helleofabore · 04/04/2023 07:20

magicthree · 04/04/2023 07:13

Are they really? I actually live in NZ and haven't heard one person, ever, talking (or whispering) either in private or in public. I find it fascinating how NZers who are living abroad always know (or rather, think they know) what every single NZer is doing in their absence.

So no one has been discussing what happened in Auckland, the assaults on the women there, the PM’s response, in your vicinity? At all?

risefromyourgrave · 04/04/2023 07:27

All this boils down to is a big group of bullies bully a group of women who just wanted to talk about women’s rights.

Some of the bullying is actual physical violence towards a female pensioner by a young(ish) bloke.

The bullies get called out for their bullying and then say they’re being bullied.

As a PP said up thread, ‘oh no, here come the consequences of my actions’.

Datun · 04/04/2023 07:36

And OP has found all this convincing?

I continue to be surprised that TRAs fail to grasp that normal people tend to take something of a dim view of men who fracture the skulls of pensioners.

YouJustDoYou · 04/04/2023 07:49

Constant video evidence of trans activists appalling behaviour probably is the main factor in this. Time and time and time and time again - the aggression, the verbal violence, physical violence, spitting at people, screaming at them, calling for the death of women etc, whilst the Let Women Speak rally attendees simply stand there, listening - and yes, all the videos are right there to see for yourselves on youtube etc. It's right there. Yes, it did happen. Yes, it does happen. Yes, it will happen again.

YouJustDoYou · 04/04/2023 07:49

Datun · 04/04/2023 07:36

And OP has found all this convincing?

I continue to be surprised that TRAs fail to grasp that normal people tend to take something of a dim view of men who fracture the skulls of pensioners.

Right?

Signalbox · 04/04/2023 07:49

Presumably this is just more lies from the NZ press. They showed the world they are not capable of honest reporting. Why should we believe anything they say now?

BluebellBlueballs · 04/04/2023 07:52

It's so narcissistic

Narcissists attacks someone who dares to question them

People react to the attack with a critical response

'Waaa waaa waaa it's so UNFAIR everyone is being transphobic to us and it's literally genocide and all PPs fault...'

So predictable

They are creating this so called transphobia themselves but of course will never see it that way.

Massive own goal for them

MarshaBradyo · 04/04/2023 07:54

There’s been a spike in violence against women who want to speak on women’s rights

NZ was a good example

Very sad and as women we are right to not accept it and say it’s wrong.

MarshaBradyo · 04/04/2023 07:56

Decapitate them

Rape / Kill

Turd

Language enables violence. Hence the punches to 70 year old being overlooked

NZ media is a captured as are their politicians. Of course they won’t focus on anything to do with women.