Suella Braverman vows to stamp out grooming gangs behind organised child sex abuse

[IwantToRetire]

The Home Secretary, writing in The Mail on Sunday, pledges to 'track down and punish the grooming gangs with the same sense of mission and determination' used to pursue the murderers of Stephen Lawrence, the black British teenager who was killed in a racially motivated attack at a bus stop in South London in 1993.

Ms Braverman, who was born in Harrow, in North-West London, to a Kenyan mother and Mauritian father, writes: 'The time has come to make right one of the greatest injustices seen in Britain in modern times. The systematic rape, exploitation and abuse of young girls by organised gangs of older men – and the disgraceful failure of the authorities to act despite ample evidence – is a stain on our country.'

A Buddhist, Ms Braverman describes the 'perpetrators' as 'groups of men, almost all British-Pakistani, who hold cultural attitudes completely incompatible with British values'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11928629/SUELLA-BRAVERMAN-mission-ensure-really-no-hiding-place-gangs-grooming-young-girls.html

I am not sure if this is just the DM take on what she said, or if it accurately reflects what she said.

If she did say this and not talk about how men of all cultures, given the opportunity, have and will exploit young women, then she is letting down all the women who are exploited.

More than 25% of the uk population are related to the famous invader, William the Conqueror.

Everyone in the world is a direct descendant of an African woman.

So?

Have you lived anywhere else and can you say a country that you think has a culture?

Are there any? Or are all countries pretty much the same in your view

I don't think all countries are the same, that would be silly.

I think humans have shared values, basically all religions say be kind to those less fortunate, don't murder, don't lie, don't cheat etc.

I think people have shared cultural references and short hand of experiences, plus ways of recognising their "tribes" - national dress, slang etc. But I think it's quite transient and shallow, and easily adapted by changes in the environment.

Hence I don't see "multiculturalism" as a thing. British culture will just adapt, as it always has, there is no threat to us or our nebulous "culture" from immigrants settling here.

I think perhaps you are crediting my posts with more insight that they deserve.

So I suppose I don't think all countries are the same but i do think all humans are basically the same. Regardless of skin colour, religion etc

Some men get off on rape and abuse of women. The men are the problem, not the culture they come from.

I don't think all countries are the same, that would be silly.

Then that’s different to no countries having no discernible culture.

If we’re not all the same what do you call the thing that makes us different if not our culture?

It's so funny. I'm enjoying the intellectual challenge of quick fire questions on my views, while simultaneously the questioner is not expressing their own.

What is "British culture"? What is "multiculturalism" and what are its downsides?

Double negative but still.. the last line is what I’m looking for

How do you sum up the difference, what do you call it

Literally explained that in para 2 😂

I was asking outright if people who think multiculturalism doesn’t have “no downsides”

I am not sure about what you mean because of the double negative.

think people like me and my children (who didn’t have any choice about where they were born) are less worthy of being in the UK?

We had been discussing the hypocrisy for some people to be really ‘pro sovereignty’ for one indigenous group, but against it for another.

Is that somehow inappropriate to ask that question to people who state that multiculturalism has “downsides”?

This again comes across snippy and insinuating. I wouldn’t call it ‘inappropriate’ but I would call it convoluted. I have no idea what you are saying. Just ask the damn question you want to ask.

Yoghurt has culture.

Yes.

I don’t mind answering but was intrigued by idea of no culture. I’ve lived in three countries for a lengthy time, third shorter and fourth quite short. Parents two nationalities and us dc a third. We have been lucky enough to appreciate some idea of three different countries in that way.

Yes I think they all have a uniqueness, a culture that we picked up in parts. I can see that some of it comes from one country over another.

I live in London now and I love how mixed it is, it’s a big reason why I do. It’s not fixed, it is made up of all the people who belong. From wherever. It’s brilliant. But I still think countries have a culture.

Okay, kept getting interrupted.

’Multiculturalism’ as an ideal was really being pushed by Blair. Lots of faith school were created, some kids never met anyone from a different background. Instead of people having a wonderful, colourful exchange of ideas, it led to ghettoisation, mistrust and it arguably could have led in part to young Brits bobbing off to Bin Laden’s training camps in Pakistan.

So you’re weirded out by using the word culture but admit we’re not all the same. But can’t use a single word for it.

So when you sum up the difference you have to avoid an accepted word why?

Laughing emojis aside it sounds really odd. Where does it come from?

Is it never leaving the U.K. to live and insularity

When I was a child under thatcher, I went to a CoE school where I was taught about Christianity, lords prayer, nativity, all that jazz. There were 2 Catholic secondary schools and they were pretty strict about religious observation too. Yet these weren't considered running a risk of "ghettoization"

Is that because when people say "British culture" they mean "Christian culture"?

I have no religion so it just seems an odd place to draw a line to me.

@EndlessTea i was quoting you here:

do you think it’s about time we addressed the negative outcomes of clenching so tightly, as a society, to this notion that multiculturalism is all great and with no possible downsides, and started taking an honest look at where we actually are?

You’re saying here that in order to be honest, we need to admit that multiculturalism has downsides. Is that correct? Please correct me if I’m wrong, I won’t be offended!

It’s interesting that you’re reading me as being “snippy“ and “insinuating” when I’m actually be very clear and not insulting you or your opinion. Maybe if the topic is causing you some discomfort, it’s not my words that are to blame?

The question I’ve already asked twice is - as my children aren’t 100% indigenous British, are they less worthy of being here? I’m not assuming that’s your opinion. I’m not accusing you of anything. I’m simply interested in the answer from your point of view.

It's hard to explain. I do think places and populations of people have a culture but it exists on multiple levels and is transient.

Organisations have a culture. Families have cultures. Religions, classes, towns, villages, people who.like different kinds of music, hobbies etc etc are all different cultures

So to me we just are multicultural. Its part of being a human. This idea of a national culture that's under threat makes no sense. Why pick a national culture over all the other types of culture to worry about?

I don’t worry about culture being under threat tbh. So I agree with you in part. As I live in London, the SE part of it, I’m surrounded each day by people from so many places worldwide.

I still think Aus v US v U.K. v French (just picking out cultures I have more knowledge of, the latter due to family) have differences.

They are not fixed though and I’m all for the flux of humanity and all that within them.

I mean the better parts of humanity if we can do that.

Didn’t you acknowledge Maori culture earlier? I’ll ask, is there such a thing as Maori culture? Have you lived in other countries or amongst other cultures?

The question I’ve already asked twice is - as my children aren’t 100% indigenous British, are they less worthy of being here? I’m not assuming that’s your opinion. I’m not accusing you of anything. I’m simply interested in the answer from your point of view.

You’re asking though, because we were discussing how another culture is quite different from British culture around women and girls. Which some objectively are. That doesn’t mean anyone in the thread thinks immigrants of any kind are less worthy of being here. My family and I are immigrants although my grandfather I didn’t know was British.

So can posters on here not see how if you are Pakistani heritage, living in the UK, feeling very much British that Ms Bravermans comments would seem offensive?

I don't know anything about the role of women in Maori culture, but will assume it is somewhat patriarchal.

If someone implied Maori men were rapists because their culture is patriarchal, would you be ok with that?

And if it was a member of government in new Zealand how would that feel?