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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suella Braverman vows to stamp out grooming gangs behind organised child sex abuse

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 03/04/2023 00:30

The Home Secretary, writing in The Mail on Sunday, pledges to 'track down and punish the grooming gangs with the same sense of mission and determination' used to pursue the murderers of Stephen Lawrence, the black British teenager who was killed in a racially motivated attack at a bus stop in South London in 1993.

Ms Braverman, who was born in Harrow, in North-West London, to a Kenyan mother and Mauritian father, writes: 'The time has come to make right one of the greatest injustices seen in Britain in modern times. The systematic rape, exploitation and abuse of young girls by organised gangs of older men – and the disgraceful failure of the authorities to act despite ample evidence – is a stain on our country.'

A Buddhist, Ms Braverman describes the 'perpetrators' as 'groups of men, almost all British-Pakistani, who hold cultural attitudes completely incompatible with British values'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11928629/SUELLA-BRAVERMAN-mission-ensure-really-no-hiding-place-gangs-grooming-young-girls.html

I am not sure if this is just the DM take on what she said, or if it accurately reflects what she said.

If she did say this and not talk about how men of all cultures, given the opportunity, have and will exploit young women, then she is letting down all the women who are exploited.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Jonei · 04/04/2023 12:52

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 12:50

I'm not the least bit surprised that you don't want to discuss the effects of reducing education budgets on child protection.

Well, start a thread about it then. Rather than derailing this one. I'm happy to participate in that.

But you won't will you.

Why not I wonder...

Howpo · 04/04/2023 12:52

Jonei · 04/04/2023 12:37

I don't think the thousands and thousands of girls who have been raped and abused by these grooming gangs, for the past 40 years, will see this as minimal. You don't speak for them.

But you do you.

Funnily enough, one of the news channels interviewed a victim of the Rotherham scandal, she has waived are right to privacy and is very bravely speaking out.

Here is an online article on what she said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/suella-braverman-grooming-gangs-rotherham-victim-b2313407.html

Who do we listen too? You or her?

Rotherham survivor tells Suella Braverman government ‘needs to help all victims’

‘Everyone can be a victim and anyone can be a perpetrator,’ Sammy Woodhouse says after meeting with home secretary

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/suella-braverman-grooming-gangs-rotherham-victim-b2313407.html

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 12:53

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 12:51

1.6% of reported rapes result in conviction. An estimated 1 in 5 women are raped. So there are hundreds of thousands of rape victims in this country who don't see justice. Yet on the numerous threads about that I'm on, radio silence as to what we can do about it.

Are you saying this board has never discussed this? That isn’t accurate, but go start a different thread about it then.

I've discussed it loads. And the general consensus is usually "innocent until proven guilty, its too hard to prosecute he said vs she said"

I'm wondering why these cases are different

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 12:54

ResisterRex · 04/04/2023 12:51

If you want to discuss education funding, start a thread on it.

I would like to have a discussion about protecting children and Braverman's motivations 3 days before her selection meeting for suddenly being interested in one aspect of it, whilst consistently doing harm to child protection through her support and membership of Conservative governments for the past 13 years.
Sadly there are rather a lot of posters on here who don't seem to want to engage in that discussion.

Jonei · 04/04/2023 12:54

I wish to apologise for derailing this thread by raising an issue that is important to child protection which this thread purports to be about.

Go and start a thread about education and children protection then. Off you pop.

ResisterRex · 04/04/2023 12:54

Jonei · 04/04/2023 12:54

I wish to apologise for derailing this thread by raising an issue that is important to child protection which this thread purports to be about.

Go and start a thread about education and children protection then. Off you pop.

This.

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 12:55

Howpo · 04/04/2023 12:52

Funnily enough, one of the news channels interviewed a victim of the Rotherham scandal, she has waived are right to privacy and is very bravely speaking out.

Here is an online article on what she said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/suella-braverman-grooming-gangs-rotherham-victim-b2313407.html

Who do we listen too? You or her?

Brava Sammy Woodhouse.

Jonei · 04/04/2023 12:55

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 12:54

I would like to have a discussion about protecting children and Braverman's motivations 3 days before her selection meeting for suddenly being interested in one aspect of it, whilst consistently doing harm to child protection through her support and membership of Conservative governments for the past 13 years.
Sadly there are rather a lot of posters on here who don't seem to want to engage in that discussion.

Sounds like a great topic for a new thread.

You will be busy.

Need a hand up out of that seat?

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 12:56

Jonei · 04/04/2023 12:55

Sounds like a great topic for a new thread.

You will be busy.

Need a hand up out of that seat?

I am not sure why you think we need a new thread.
This one would be perfectly useable if all contributors were willing to have a civil discussion.

ResisterRex · 04/04/2023 12:57

So no new thread then. Shocked I tell you, shocked

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 12:57

There's a very interesting case at the end of that thread showing just how seriously child rape is taken in this country

Jonei · 04/04/2023 12:58

Who do we listen too? You or her?

Sorry, I can't see the bit where she says her experience of being raped and abused is minimal...

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 12:58

IwantToRetire · 03/04/2023 00:30

The Home Secretary, writing in The Mail on Sunday, pledges to 'track down and punish the grooming gangs with the same sense of mission and determination' used to pursue the murderers of Stephen Lawrence, the black British teenager who was killed in a racially motivated attack at a bus stop in South London in 1993.

Ms Braverman, who was born in Harrow, in North-West London, to a Kenyan mother and Mauritian father, writes: 'The time has come to make right one of the greatest injustices seen in Britain in modern times. The systematic rape, exploitation and abuse of young girls by organised gangs of older men – and the disgraceful failure of the authorities to act despite ample evidence – is a stain on our country.'

A Buddhist, Ms Braverman describes the 'perpetrators' as 'groups of men, almost all British-Pakistani, who hold cultural attitudes completely incompatible with British values'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11928629/SUELLA-BRAVERMAN-mission-ensure-really-no-hiding-place-gangs-grooming-young-girls.html

I am not sure if this is just the DM take on what she said, or if it accurately reflects what she said.

If she did say this and not talk about how men of all cultures, given the opportunity, have and will exploit young women, then she is letting down all the women who are exploited.

JGW is trying to discuss the OP of this thread. Not sure why you want her to start a new one?

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 13:01

Jonei · 04/04/2023 12:58

Who do we listen too? You or her?

Sorry, I can't see the bit where she says her experience of being raped and abused is minimal...

Noone said anyone's experience of being raped and abused was minimal

I said that a consultation on targeting brown sexual abusers would have a minimal impact in reducing CSA.

Do you think the consultation is going to have a meaningful impact? If so, what do you think that impact will be?

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 13:01

ResisterRex · 04/04/2023 12:57

So no new thread then. Shocked I tell you, shocked

Not as shocked as you will be to learn how much the government has cut funding for child protection services over the past 13 years.

Jonei · 04/04/2023 13:02

ResisterRex · 04/04/2023 12:57

So no new thread then. Shocked I tell you, shocked

Well they don't really want to discuss it unless it serves the purpose of derailing this one.

Interesting to see how these posters operate though. I wonder if they actually ever step back and see how how transparent they are. No wonder it was so hard to get anything done when up against this mentality from people. The only way forward is to ignore it and do what's right. And I hope SB manages to achieve that.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 13:02

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 13:01

Noone said anyone's experience of being raped and abused was minimal

I said that a consultation on targeting brown sexual abusers would have a minimal impact in reducing CSA.

Do you think the consultation is going to have a meaningful impact? If so, what do you think that impact will be?

I am going to make a bold statement.

I think the cutting of 25% off the Ministry of Justice's budget has had a less than minimal impact on CSE.

EndlessTea · 04/04/2023 13:03

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 12:50

Maybe I am dim, but I have no idea what dilema you are talking about.

The dilemma of ‘an oppressed an persecuted minority’ - Muslim, brown-skinned men of Pakistani origin acting as oppressor…

of…

Oh no, their victims are not Muslim, brown-skinned women of Pakistani origin, who fit the nice, neat hierarchy, but people from the…..der…der…….DER!… oppressor class ….. noooooooo……… white people.

Nooooo! This does not fit.

How can we target this form of oppression which doesn’t neatly fit the hierarchy? What can we do? How can we address it, without it backfiring and leading to racism and islamophobia and retribution from the bogeymen ‘Far Right’? Oh no! What do we do? O dear? There’s no easy solution to this…

👆That ethical dilemma.

This is was is being avoided.

Howpo · 04/04/2023 13:04

Jonei · 04/04/2023 12:58

Who do we listen too? You or her?

Sorry, I can't see the bit where she says her experience of being raped and abused is minimal...

S. Woodhouse is saying target all abuse, wherever it occurs by whom and to whom.
Plus provide the resources.

This seems to be the argument on here... Focus on Pakistani men or Everyone and resource the issues, wherever it takes us, so Schools, Social Care/Work, Fostering, Sure Start, Police and Justice.

Atm we have a HS who is going to have a "Consultation" on the issues, i think we are a bit beyond that.

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 13:04

@AdamRyan I meant on THIS BOARD ffs

MarshaBradyo · 04/04/2023 13:05

Jonei · 04/04/2023 13:02

Well they don't really want to discuss it unless it serves the purpose of derailing this one.

Interesting to see how these posters operate though. I wonder if they actually ever step back and see how how transparent they are. No wonder it was so hard to get anything done when up against this mentality from people. The only way forward is to ignore it and do what's right. And I hope SB manages to achieve that.

I think they go for pushing thread to 20 pages with nonsense as they would prefer the topic wasn’t addressed.

This thread looks like it’s going the same way.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 13:05

EndlessTea · 04/04/2023 13:03

The dilemma of ‘an oppressed an persecuted minority’ - Muslim, brown-skinned men of Pakistani origin acting as oppressor…

of…

Oh no, their victims are not Muslim, brown-skinned women of Pakistani origin, who fit the nice, neat hierarchy, but people from the…..der…der…….DER!… oppressor class ….. noooooooo……… white people.

Nooooo! This does not fit.

How can we target this form of oppression which doesn’t neatly fit the hierarchy? What can we do? How can we address it, without it backfiring and leading to racism and islamophobia and retribution from the bogeymen ‘Far Right’? Oh no! What do we do? O dear? There’s no easy solution to this…

👆That ethical dilemma.

This is was is being avoided.

I am still lost as to what the dilema is. Any one who sexually exploits children should be prosecuted under the laws of the land. I don't think that is a difficult concept to grasp?

What is this hierarchy that you are talking about?

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 13:06

EndlessTea · 04/04/2023 13:03

The dilemma of ‘an oppressed an persecuted minority’ - Muslim, brown-skinned men of Pakistani origin acting as oppressor…

of…

Oh no, their victims are not Muslim, brown-skinned women of Pakistani origin, who fit the nice, neat hierarchy, but people from the…..der…der…….DER!… oppressor class ….. noooooooo……… white people.

Nooooo! This does not fit.

How can we target this form of oppression which doesn’t neatly fit the hierarchy? What can we do? How can we address it, without it backfiring and leading to racism and islamophobia and retribution from the bogeymen ‘Far Right’? Oh no! What do we do? O dear? There’s no easy solution to this…

👆That ethical dilemma.

This is was is being avoided.

  1. you don't know what oppression means
  2. not all the perpetrators are brown, not all the victims are white
  3. there's no proof race politics was any more of a factor than rape myths, underfunding or various other potential factors
  4. it suits particular political agendas to push this as "woke" politics in Labour run councils, that doesn't mean its true
jgw1 · 04/04/2023 13:07

MarshaBradyo · 04/04/2023 13:05

I think they go for pushing thread to 20 pages with nonsense as they would prefer the topic wasn’t addressed.

This thread looks like it’s going the same way.

Do you mean nonsense like suggesting there is some ethical dilema to wanting all CSE to be investigated and prosecuted?
Or nonsense like there hasn't been 25% cuts to the Ministry of Justice?
Or nonsense like not wanting to discuss the impact of budget cuts on child protection services?

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