Trans rights activism, a GC male perspective

[RealityFan]

Hallo Mumsnet allies, from recently-joined new comrade in arms. And a male to boot.
I've been deliberating leaving some thoughts on the scarred landscape that is trans activism, from an XY perspective. I'm unsure of how much interest a guy's thoughts are here.
My opinions range from the autogynephile/porn "sharp end" of the phenomenon, through my views as a male non parent on the phenomenon amongst teens, through the threat to free speech/institutional capture area, segueing nicely into the Labour Party's position and what this means post-2024 GE.
I need to be frank in this discussion, and some of what I might say may rub some readers the wrong way, but it's my heartfelt analysis.
I'm seeing very little from GC men online, save for Graham Linehan, Malcolm Clark, Dennis Noel Kavanagh, Simon Edge, Colin Wright, Billboard Chris, Wesley Yang, Jon Pike.
My take is of someone who's really thought a lot about this subject, has really weighed up lots of factors, and has really come down on the GC side, indeed is working hard to reconcile very strong emotions on the subject.
I'll post my thoughts if that's wanted, let me know.

"But that doesnt explain trans men (who were cis women). Are they also AGP's? No, generally they seem to be explained as misguided lesbians or doing trans, as their friends are."

Sorry slight correction! Apologies. x

And it is fair for trans people to push back against people who would not tolerate them

The pushing back (using mob violence, death threat, rape threats, all of which you're excusing) is against women who will not tolerate having their rights trampled on, their identities used for cosplay, their language removed, their right to homosexuality removed, and to be excluded and harmed.

And it is not 'trans people' who are doing all this, it is a political lobby many of whom are not themselves trans. And this lobby is equally aggressive and oppressive to any trans person who dares to voice a different view to that of the lobby.

Enough with the obfusticating, it's all in plain sight now.

Well done for noticing that the motivations for trans identifying males and females are very different.

It's almost like men and teen girls have very different responses to porn.

You can't give me advice after being insulting about my journey and my intent on running this thread. If you really want me to apply a different outlook, try a different way.

People who would not tolerate them doing what? This sort of unfinished sentence is a tool used by TRAs. People who are worried about oppression and inequality might well imagine some sort intolerance like not giving people jobs, beating them up, harassing them because of how they dress. But GC people don't defend that. Actually what they object to not being tolerated is men in women's sports, rape centres, hospital wards, rapists in women's prisons, a man saying he's a woman and doing a Ln intimate exam on a woman who requested same sex care. That is not what most people would consider intolerant is it?

Yeah please do ignore that poster OP. There are always some people who want to present the justifiable concerns about women's rights as an obsessions with a small number of people. The misogyny allegations are likely a projection. You have to learn to filter out the MRAs who generally refuse to engage in actual conversation, maybe for fear of outing themselves as having no validity to the waft that tries to stand in for actual reasoning.

MishyJDI is our resident TRA. I don't bother to read the posts anymore.

The increasingly desperate 'no one in the real world cares, it's just six mad women and their sock puppets' is even being tried by Mr Kier Starmer today.

Increasing desperation.

(Which increases desperately.)

Yep, Starmer would do better at least to acknowledge women's genuine fears and concerns.

It would give him a genuine point to pivot from on any future potential 180.

But to claim any concerns over the 0.1% are just froth, and toxic "both sides-ism" leaves him no room for manoeuvre or even genuine change of mind.

He didn't even do this with Brexit voters, despite disagreeing with the Leave vote.

Oh, I'll engage, but the "this is spoof, innit?" thrust is just likely to raise my hackles.

And, why bother engaging with a spoof thread...all 18 pages of it?

Did like the "live your best life" motto. Can agree with that.

I honestly don't get Keir Starmer. Labour realize they need women's votes, particularly middle-aged women. So KS then pisses the women off, who are smart, with his obnoxious 99% remark....

It just repeatedly gives away to me how thick Starmer appears to think Mummies are.

Because Starmer's workplace and social scene is dominated by the exalted idea of the Trans Child, and the current minority right to protect and promote at all costs, in this new age of intersectional grievances trumping good old fashioned class analysis, is transgender.

So it permeates his everyday working life, close contact with shadow cabinet colleagues with trans IDd children, and those who's raising d'être is the protection of this group.

And this is reflected in every layer of left leaning elite societal organisation.

EVERY left politician, journalist, doctor, charity CEO, social scientist, academic etc, has a trans IDd child (often more than one), or there is one or more than one in the extended family, or friends/work colleagues have one or more.

This is now "queering the pitch", in that the belief in the trans child is now the defacto mainstream belief, combination of herd mentality, purity spirals, intelligence being inversely proportional to common sense.

And these leftist elite parents are the epitome of combining extreme helicopter parenting with total Immersion into #BeKind #NoBullying #JustAccept, and the extreme social justice impulse for the trans child to be the first minority to never be downtrodden by society at large, no period of prejudice, no, the status will be exalted on day one, and brought into legal being.

No matter how many kids and women are trashed along the way.

Starmer doesn't even realise that this is a zero sum game, whereas we know whether he believes 100% 10% 1% 0.1%, or just one individual born a male can "become" a female is written into law, and female spaces perpetually up for grabs, the game is lost.

I first saw 'the trans child' concept mentioned in the Conversion Therapy paper which Johnson subsequently dropped when he realised the implications of banning 'trans conversion therapy' being all about giving the green light to totally affirmative care.
The feedback many of us gave with help from Sex Matters etc was seemingly taken on board alongside the Cass Review.

This.
OP you appear well meaning but there is nothing here we didn't know.
Same as always, it's our (women's) fault.

Thank you for your explanation, I think I understand a lot better now - I think perhaps I'm a bit biased on the topic of false allegations specifically because I've seen it happen within my friend group and seen what effects that kind of thing has even on just a social level years on.

Generally I see it brushed under the rug and ignored, but with your explanation it makes a lot more sense as to why.

The only part I'd maybe slightly disagree with you on is not having brothers = not witnessing sexism or inequality in the home.
My dad was abusive to both me and my mum, I both witnessed and experienced first hand that things were definitely not equal.
I think perhaps why I keep not making connections that seem obvious to you, is more that I just didn't/don't see those things as sexism in inequality at the time, or as happening overtly because of my sex.
I viewed/view them as happening because my dad is an alcoholic, aggressive narcissist.
With hindsight and your explanation, I'd probably say that what I saw happen to my mum probably had some sexism/inequality aspects to it if I really analysed everything down to the very core. Not sure if those things also apply to how I was treated though, still working through those memories to piece it out :s

I experienced bullying from a group of girls in my mixed secondary school. It was nasty. I know what girls are capable of.

I also know someone who made a false rape allegation while at university. It wasn't an allegation about an individual. She claimed to have been raped walking through a dark part of the campus in an effort to highlight the lack of lighting and to prompt the university to take action.

No one thinks women are angels.

However, the abuse and sexism I received from boys at school was disgusting. It was a daily backdrop of every day.

Incidentally, my female bullies were spoken to by the Head and I was allowed to move classes away from them.

The boy who pinned me to a wall and shoved his hand up my skirt, the one who made inappropriate hand gestures across the playground at me shouting that his mate wanted to 'eat me out' (I was 11 and innocent and had no idea what that meant) and on an on... nothing done about them.

The girl who cried rape at university went to prison.

So yes, women can be bad and nasty and violent and abusive, but the consequences are nothing like equal.

Well, it really isn't your fault. 100% men's fault, with help from some transmaidens.

Said a well meaning guy.

Thanks for the reassurance but I think she was being sarcastic... We know it's men's fault.

Ah, my trusty radar let me down. I'm aware my side are a real shower here.

@RealityFan...

Nice of you to say, but I'm not sure it's true exactly...

Something took a wrong turn. Feminism definitely took a wrong turn. We could analyse it all day, but it seems to me that women, themselves, carry a lot of responsibility too. With men in support, of course.

The male backlash you described yourself against feminists doing things like trying to ban page 3 seemed to cause a panic in womankind.

There was a collective knee jerk to please the men and say 'we're not all like that. Look. I'll show you my tits' - Loaded magazine, Ladette culture, empowering stripping...etc.

We should have stood firm. Said 'we know men don't like it, but tough shit.' (Some did, obviously) but young women embraced man-pleasing again and did it on steroids.

Then embraced gendered toys and dressed their little princess girls up in pink.

Women were complicit in this, even if the men were pulling the strings and cheering it on.

So it isn't women's fault. Of course it isn't. It really is a Men's Rights Movement.

But women are not 100% innocent either. We allowed some of our gains to be lost.

(Disclaimer - generalising about societal shifts and not individuals. Of course)

💐 I agree that it can be harder to spot the sexism with your parents. With siblings, it is really obvious. “Why are they allowed to do that and not me?”, “Why are my words not believed, but his are?”, “Why are we ‘just as bad as each other’ when he is the one with the boot on my neck?”, “Why don’t you pull him up for being an utter c%&£ for no reason, but you are all over me for something tiny?”, etc, etc. Hopefully most girls had it better than me though.

@RealityFan :"And these leftist elite parents are the epitome of combining extreme helicopter parenting with total Immersion into #BeKind #NoBullying #JustAccept, and the extreme social justice impulse for the trans child to be the first minority to never be downtrodden by society at large, no period of prejudice, no, the status will be exalted "

Ah I get it now thanks for explaining.
I'm just a middle-aged conservative Lesbian who thinks effeminate boys and masculine girls should be left alone.

@RealityFan :"As if me, and men in general, can't be trusted here. That men's antipathy to feminism in the past is more agitating than pornified TRAs scorched earth battle with feminism today."

It is more important as the straight women here live and sleep and deal with men, not pornified TRAs.

I don't, so I'm interested in the pornified TRAs motivation.