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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What do Labour mean by 'Modernise the Outdated Gender Recognition Act'?

110 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 31/03/2023 11:00

This is is after suggesting that they arre rowing back on self-id. Is 'Modernise the GRA' going to be a new phrase that basically means self-id but we don't want anyone to notice?

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1641689281617088512

The bile they continue to allow against Rosie Duffield (see the responses to the tweet demanding she be kicked out of the party for having an opinion) makes a mockery of any claim they have to be interested in protecting women and girls.

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1641689281617088512

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 31/03/2023 22:04

Spoiling my ballot is the only option at the moment. And Labour need votes to overturn the Tory majority. It's the only way it's going to happen.

ResisterRex · 31/03/2023 22:04

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 21:57

ResisterRex you said Anyone have a link to that? regarding:

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.

I don’t get your point, sorry. Labour have said they will modernise the law around this. There isn’t anywhere else but Parliament for the law to be changed. What do you think is going to happen?

They haven't said that then. And if they win a majority then it's a done deal. They whipped to pass the GRR in Scotland. If we had a Labour government right now, it would already be done. That's before they start looking at what they can simply do because they feel like it, under powers given to the relevant Secretary of State under the GRA.

nilsmousehammer · 31/03/2023 22:05

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 22:02

The SNP are toast. The UK public are not for self ID. That much if obvious to all politicians whatever party.

You can vote Tory for whatever reason you like but don’t not vote Labour because you think Labour will bring in self ID. They’re not going to. I find the Tory loyalty very odd given that until a few short years ago, before Boris realised it was a vote loser, the Tories were pushing self ID on us..

It's less a vote for than running away from. I suspect most voters are going to picking the least bloody awful of a range of political options none of which they actually want.

MarshaBradyo · 31/03/2023 22:15

Slothtoes · 31/03/2023 22:02

The SNP are toast. The UK public are not for self ID. That much if obvious to all politicians whatever party.

You can vote Tory for whatever reason you like but don’t not vote Labour because you think Labour will bring in self ID. They’re not going to. I find the Tory loyalty very odd given that until a few short years ago, before Boris realised it was a vote loser, the Tories were pushing self ID on us..

They’re not going to.

Given all that has been said by Labour on this I don’t get this confidence.

Slothtoes · 01/04/2023 10:29

OK. Obviously I could be completely wrong but given that (to English eyes at least) self ID and rapists in women’s prisons has taken down Nicola Sturgeon and public support has quickly flowed away from the SNP, I really don’t think Labour are that stupid as to try to bring in self ID to the UK any time soon. Which is only a temporary relief obviously, if I am right.

Because the risk is EVER PRESENT against women’s rights, from ALL mainstream parties. That is until policy in ALL parties is made more woman-friendly and then that is translated into actual law- and even then laws can be reversed. Misogyny is as old as time and the fight against it the same. That’s something I have reluctantly come to accept. We can never fully relax. And that’s shit but it’s the way it is.

Misogyny sewn into party politics is just a reflection of the culture that we live in. Therefore I find it irritating that on here the Tories who five minutes ago WERE actually forcing self ID on us, are somehow now being presented as the natural party of gender critical voters by some FWR posters. Absolute bollocks. Very short memories. Also, that would be ignoring all the other Tory damage done since 2010 to women, especially those on lower incomes, via Tory destruction of NHS and public services and Tory inertia or worse on a lot of women and children’s issues like child poverty and better internet protections for children.

I don’t feel any less politically homeless than I have done for the last decade or so since all major UK parties incl the Greens (honourable exception: the communists) went all TWAW.
But I will continue to vote Labour, because in judging people by what they do not what they say: the Tories have ruined the economy and devastated public services and presided over a cost of living crisis and rise in child poverty which has fucked many women’s and children’s lives over and I can not support that.

But we all have different priorities for voting and I do appreciate there have been a few real-world women-friendly initiatives in the Tories’ work even after they kicked out all the moderate Tories over Brexit. An example I am thinking of is Boris starting off a women’s health strategy which Liz didn’t have time to fuck up (.. let’s see if or how Rishi follows it up) and that has been raising attention to issues that are current in current media discussion like HRT. So I am pleased and relieved to see HRT finally getting a reduced prescription charge from today, although I think it should be free on the NHS like contraception is.

And obviously the Tories’ new found urge to stop Scotland bringing in self ID in conflict with the UK’s 2010 Equality Act is the right thing to do. But where is the specific pledge to reform the Equality Act to deal with the conflation of sex and gender?

This petition only runs until 20 April, please sign it and share it https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4758082-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-3?page=35

Slothtoes · 01/04/2023 10:33

Also while not taking our eyes of the anti-women policies of the Tories and Labour as the two main parties let’s not take the pressure off the Lib Dems and Greens and the Nationalist parties- in 2024 they will attract (I predict) a bigger preference or tactical vote because the big Tory majority can’t last. Their misogyny matters too and needs to be moderated as best as possible.

DdraigGoch · 01/04/2023 12:32

JacquelinePot · 31/03/2023 11:32

Ah yes, but that's not "modernising" though. GRA and hate legislation both need repealing because they are terrible, badly written laws which are impossible to enforce fairly.

They say "modernise" so that people short on time unquestioningly accept the law is old-fashioned and out of date. Which the GRA is in terms of sex role stereotyping and sexism required to up hold it. But that's not what they mean. They mean "maintaining any kind of boundaries is old hat and we'll tear those boundaries down because Momentum wants us to".

Weasel words.

Ah, but when the government says "modernise", it really means "cut" (as in "modernising maintenance" = "cutting maintenance"). So am I being overly optimistic if "modernise the GRA" meant "cut the GRA". I probably am, aren't I?

ChristinaXYZ · 01/04/2023 16:30

Laladybird · 31/03/2023 20:08

@ChristinaXYZ Alba Party, SNP rivals, are also explicitly Gender Critical.

You're right, yes, thank you.

OP posts:
ChristinaXYZ · 01/04/2023 16:42

I am absolutely appauled by this - it is a metaphorical two fingers up to all Rosie Duffield has put up with.

Vote Labour/Starmer and this is what we will get

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1642170493494079488

I don't know how much more women-with-opinions-hating Labour have to be before the tin eared start getting it.

They absolutely loath us.

You reckon they've learned from Scotland do you @Slothtoes , reckon they're not that stupid? I have no idea if they're stupid or not but they seem so full of bile about this that they don't care how much they'll shoot themselves in the feet they just really, really really want to stick one on women over this and they don't care what it costs them.

The Tories may or may not care about me, they're a mixed bunch and some are self-agrandising and some are very caring like Miriam Cates and the Baroness, but whatever their views at least they don't hate me on principle! And that I think is pretty basic requirement in any political party.

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1642170493494079488

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 01/04/2023 16:49

ChristinaXYZ · 01/04/2023 16:42

I am absolutely appauled by this - it is a metaphorical two fingers up to all Rosie Duffield has put up with.

Vote Labour/Starmer and this is what we will get

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1642170493494079488

I don't know how much more women-with-opinions-hating Labour have to be before the tin eared start getting it.

They absolutely loath us.

You reckon they've learned from Scotland do you @Slothtoes , reckon they're not that stupid? I have no idea if they're stupid or not but they seem so full of bile about this that they don't care how much they'll shoot themselves in the feet they just really, really really want to stick one on women over this and they don't care what it costs them.

The Tories may or may not care about me, they're a mixed bunch and some are self-agrandising and some are very caring like Miriam Cates and the Baroness, but whatever their views at least they don't hate me on principle! And that I think is pretty basic requirement in any political party.

Bloody hell

ChristinaXYZ · 01/04/2023 17:03

I know @ResisterRex I could not believe it either. Rosie must be incandescent.

Coming after yesterday's 'modernise' comment it is a clear indication that there has been no rowing back at all. Full steam ahead for self-id and the end of rights for those pesky old-school women's rights.

OP posts:
DdraigGoch · 01/04/2023 17:07

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.
@Slothtoes I've seen Lloyd Russell-Moyle's version of "democratic debate". I'll be voting on the views of the individual candidates standing in my constituency. If I lived in Rosie Duffield's constituency, I'd vote for her; if I lived in Crispin Blunt's constituency, I wouldn't vote for him - I don't think that he's standing anyway, but you get the idea.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 01/04/2023 17:10

Wtf?

That’s so rude - especially as Rosie is a popular constituency MP and has recently been reselected by her CLP members.

His actions are disrespectful to the Canterbury membership and the Labour voters of Canterbury, not just to Rosie herself.

I hope the local paper call him out on it.

ResisterRex · 01/04/2023 17:18

An important tweet @ChristinaXYZ, which I'd missed. If anyone thinks they don't mean full on TWAW self-ID after all the recent evidence, they're in denial.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 01/04/2023 17:31

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.

It's a risk to promise this.

If labour have a large majority any 'modernisation' will be pushed through. Then Starmer will be spending the rest of his time as PM hoping some safeguarding fail doesnt happen as a result.

If labour dont have a large majority, and promise a debate, they'll be risking exposing the madness of giving adult men a female birth certificate. Do they want that fact as headlines?

All for men like eddie izzard and jamie wallis?

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 01/04/2023 17:33

If Starmer cant be seen to be in the same room as Rosie Duffield, he isnt ready to hold a debate.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 01/04/2023 17:43

If he can’t face Rosie, he must be shitting bricks at the thought of Posie.

nilsmousehammer · 01/04/2023 18:09

She really won't waste time asking him what biscuit he likes, that's for sure.

ChristinaXYZ · 01/04/2023 18:52

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 01/04/2023 17:43

If he can’t face Rosie, he must be shitting bricks at the thought of Posie.

That's brilliant. Posie should have it put on posters!

OP posts:
EndlessTea · 01/04/2023 21:06

ChristinaXYZ · 01/04/2023 18:52

That's brilliant. Posie should have it put on posters!

I like the rhyme

Slothtoes · 01/04/2023 22:45

Ok if Starmer was in Gillingham in Kent that’s in a Tory constituency and not Duffield’s constituency, so not a snub to her. Yes they should have called but I’d assume they are seriously busy campaigning their arses off and it was more cock up than conspiracy not to call and say. He probably went to about 15 other constituencies today to campaign. I don’t know. Labour have been shameful absolute shits to Rosie Duffield and I’m grateful she has stuck with them but I don’t think this is a huge deal.

Boiledbeetle · 01/04/2023 22:49

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 01/04/2023 17:43

If he can’t face Rosie, he must be shitting bricks at the thought of Posie.

She has to have that on posters, t-shirts ...toilet roll

Slothtoes · 01/04/2023 22:53

I just saw this on another thread- a Times interview today with Starmer on exactly this topic.
Sounds like he’s got a more pragmatic grip on the issues now. I don’t think he done enough obviously yet to fully reassure me he actually understands these issues fully but it’s a step in the right direction to have this on record and he’s at least making the right sort of noises https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4776000-keir-starmer-trans-rights-cant-override-womens-rights

DdraigGoch · 02/04/2023 02:58

Slothtoes · 01/04/2023 22:45

Ok if Starmer was in Gillingham in Kent that’s in a Tory constituency and not Duffield’s constituency, so not a snub to her. Yes they should have called but I’d assume they are seriously busy campaigning their arses off and it was more cock up than conspiracy not to call and say. He probably went to about 15 other constituencies today to campaign. I don’t know. Labour have been shameful absolute shits to Rosie Duffield and I’m grateful she has stuck with them but I don’t think this is a huge deal.

She's still the only Labour MP in the entire county (and the first elected since several were wiped out in 2010). Canterbury was a reasonably safe Conservative seat before Rosie, so she clearly knows how to win an election against the odds. What experience does Starmer have? He's never even fought a marginal, he just walked into a seat with a decent majority already and benefitted further from the imploding of the Lib Dems.

I have no insider knowledge at Labour HQ but this was clearly a deliberate snub, if nothing else because if he was seen with her Twitter would explode.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 02/04/2023 05:37

Plus Labour will rely on members n Canterbury (inc Rosie’s consituency staff) to campaign with members in Gillingham!