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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What do Labour mean by 'Modernise the Outdated Gender Recognition Act'?

110 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 31/03/2023 11:00

This is is after suggesting that they arre rowing back on self-id. Is 'Modernise the GRA' going to be a new phrase that basically means self-id but we don't want anyone to notice?

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1641689281617088512

The bile they continue to allow against Rosie Duffield (see the responses to the tweet demanding she be kicked out of the party for having an opinion) makes a mockery of any claim they have to be interested in protecting women and girls.

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1641689281617088512

OP posts:
ChristinaXYZ · 02/04/2023 10:48

I can see you are desparate to find soemthign positive to say about Starmer's duplicitous position @Slothtoes but he thinks TWAW that is absolutely clear.

This tweet sums it up perfectly:

"Keir Starmer says 99.9% of women don't have penises. He's read the census data: 0.1% of male-sexed people identify as transwomen. That means 48,000 people with penises whom Keir thinks have the right to be in women's sport, loos and changing rooms. Labour's gaslighting us."

https://twitter.com/women_outspoken/status/1642437856416210946

Look how he flipped about supporting Corbyn as potential PM and then kicking him out. He was lying at one of those points and I don't believe him now.

Between the antisemitism and misogyny there will have to be a complete change at the top of Labour before I could vote them again. And I wish I could.

https://twitter.com/women_outspoken/status/1642437856416210946

OP posts:
Slothtoes · 02/04/2023 10:59

OK we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the local election campaign ‘snub’. I had something to do with a constituency office at one time and they didn’t borrow staff to come from constituency offices for a leader visit.

myoldmansatrendydustman · 02/04/2023 11:02

It means "What can we say that makes us more popular with the electorate".

I wish them luck with that one. 🙄

ResisterRex · 02/04/2023 11:05

I'm really struggling to read the constituency visit any other way. They have ONE Labour seat in that area. Why not visit the one person who flipped it? Well, we know why b

Slothtoes · 02/04/2023 11:18

Christina thanks but I’m not ‘desperate’. Clearly we have different views which is fine. I have said that Starmer’s sitting on the fence on this and will be picking splinters out of his arse.

OP asked what does Labour mean, and I’ve said what my impression is about that and even given a link to a Times article from
yesterday discussing just that exact issue. The gist of which from Starmer’s mouth doesn’t fit with your tweet. I am cynical too- I have said a million times on this board that ALL parties are misogynistic hence they all have pushed TWAW.

Yes I would love it if there was a new and female Labour leader. I don’t particularly warm to Starmer but I do believe he’s got to be a million times better than this succession of Tory Brexiters fucking up this country to serve their own ends.

Slothtoes · 02/04/2023 11:19

Plus I don’t see the problem with anyone in Labour backing away from Corbyn. Corbyn has been an electoral disaster for Labour. He has allowed terrible antisemitism on his watch so getting rid of him long term, once it’s all been investigated and openly reported on is an obviously good thing.

Boris Johnson is a disgusting liar and I wish the Tory party would completely back away from him and not allow him to stand again. But they seem pretty happy with him for some inexplicable reason..

Slothtoes · 02/04/2023 11:45

Last point that I think Starmer as a lawyer will always have as a blind spot is that he seems to think GRA is either good or GRA is an inevitable legal requirement needed to support the rights of trans women.
It’s neither. It needs to be reviewed to check for any reasonable gaps not covered by existing law and ultimately repealed so that everyone relies equally on (what should be) an amended Equality Act which in future would distinguish sex clearly from gender.
Hes not wrong that while we still have the GRA there are in purely legal terms women who have penises, that’s the whole reason for having the GRA. That’s how I read it anyway.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 02/04/2023 11:47

Even the TRAs hate Starmer!

He has already entered his ‘pleasing none of the people none of the time’ phase.

Previous Labour leaders have all been divisive amongst the membership to a greater or lesser extent (it’s impossible to keep the entire broad church happy) but Labour terves range from Bennites to Blairites and TRAs range from Progress to Momentum (and there has even been a split within the Trans Labour movement, with Heather Peto and late transitioning Progress chums on one side and the young Nonbinary blue hairs and transmen of Momentum on the other).

Outside of the membership the potential Labour electorate is also split, although that largely splits geographically with those North of where the Red Wall used to stand being fiscally left wing but socially more conservative and those south of it (and small pockets in the studenty cities)being more interested in progressivism and IDPOL than fiscal policy and neighbourhood cohesion.

Another difficulty for Starmer to negotiate is that Labour BAME voters have had their ‘needs’ wrapped into imported American IDPOL with no acknowledgement that actually, a lot of immigrant Brits and Brits of recent immigrant heritage (2nd and 3rd gen) are MORE socially conservative than their geographical neighbours and economic counterparts.

I live in a NW neighbourhood that is a really diverse in ethnicity terms but until recently wasn’t very diverse in economic terms (a very working class area that is now experiencing gentrification).
The only working class people I know who are regular church goers are either senior citizens (mostly Catholic and of Irish descent) or Black British (Caribbean or African descent, depending on which church you go to). The local Catholic primary school is almost all children of fairly recent Black African or Eastern European immigrants, alongside the grandchildren of Irish immigrants. The non-religious primary school next door has kids from families who follow other religions (Muslim, Hindi, Sikh & Carribean descent Christians from the Apostolic/Pentecostal/Baptist churches, but not CoE) and kids of atheists (mine!).

I LOVE my diverse neighbourhood (it’s truly diverse with a massive mix of backgrounds, not a ghetto-style pocket of people with roots in one other country) but once you add all the Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi heritage small business owners (eg shops, restaurants, taxi drivers, accountants) who are concerned about business taxes (and often saving hard so as to send multiple children to university) to all the socially conservative religious people and all the traditional Labour women who can no longer trust a leader who says that some women have penises, how the fuck does Starmer really think he can pick up disaffected Southern Tory votes, preserve IDPOL Student Labour London and Brighton votes and not lose the North?
He can’t even convincingly pretend to play a diversity card when three of the most powerful positions in UK politics are now men of south Asian descent (Prime Minister, First Minister and Mayor of London, only one of which is a Labour politician)

Throw in some of the tensions arising in the midlands between Hindi Brits of Indian heritage and Muslim Brits of Pakistani heritage and it’s increasingly clear that Labour membership (especially Young Labour and Labour Students) isn’t representative of the people who live in the regions that are supposedly ‘Labour heartlands’ and blanket IDPOL policies cannot paper over the cracks.

What the fuck actually happened with all those Labour councillors being blocked from re standing in Leicester? Does anyone know? They weren’t deselected by branch members, it was a top down imposition.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/23/labour-tells-19-leicester-councillors-they-cannot-stand-in-may-election

Labour are a now a poor fit for the people they were founded to represent.

Keir Starmer shows no understanding of any of these issues, at least not in public, but Labour are enjoying high polling numbers because people desperately WANT to be able to vote against the Tories.

Labour tells 19 Leicester councillors they cannot stand in May election | Labour | The Guardian

Some intend to defect or stand as independents after ‘undemocratic’ deselection of mostly BAME councillors

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/23/labour-tells-19-leicester-councillors-they-cannot-stand-in-may-election

Ofcourseshecan · 03/04/2023 18:43

EndlessTea · 31/03/2023 11:26

Yup. That’s the only kind of ‘modernisation’ it needs.

Agreed. Is there any other UK law that requires the population to pretend to believe a fantasy, and enshrines lies on documents of record (sex on birth certificate)? Even religion (which some would call fantasy) doesn’t have that level of power!

Slothtoes · 03/04/2023 20:39

Yes there are other examples of legal fictions with legal consequences. For example the presumption of paternity legally and on birth certificates for all babies born within a marriage.
Bears no relationship to genetic paternity and is used even after sperm donation through a clinic when everyone involved knows that fact.
I don’t see the problem with this fiction being retained especially these days, where children being ‘illegitimate’ is not really a thing of stigma any more in most social groups. It’s probably quite a protective privacy thing for some children these days and that’s absolutely OK.

Lying and pretending that a sex change is possible and equating men to women via a legal fiction is absolutely not OK. GRA should be repealed.

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