What do Labour mean by 'Modernise the Outdated Gender Recognition Act'?

[ChristinaXYZ]

This is is after suggesting that they arre rowing back on self-id. Is 'Modernise the GRA' going to be a new phrase that basically means self-id but we don't want anyone to notice?

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1641689281617088512

The bile they continue to allow against Rosie Duffield (see the responses to the tweet demanding she be kicked out of the party for having an opinion) makes a mockery of any claim they have to be interested in protecting women and girls.

Electorally, as well as morally, they are bing really stupid. They will never be able to place the TRAs enough but women have a very few defined wants with regard to this and then we'll be happy.

Yep. The TRAs won’t be happy because no matter what Starmer does, they still won’t be able to change sex!

Black hole of need. Nothing will ever be enough to fill it.

I have gone from being a member of the Labour party who campaigned for them to fearing they ever gain power. This will be deeply unpopular as most people do give a toss about women and girls. I am looking forward to Posie holding Starmer's feet to the fire and asking awkward questions.

How does "gender recognition" in that sense fit with protecting single sex spaces? Just blows it apart I imagine?

Unless you repeal the current GRA (which changes legal sex for some but not all purposes) and replace it with some sort of ‘gender affirmation certificate’ that has nothing to do with sex, legal or bio and instead gives you solid protections against discrimination in housing, education and law without granting access to anything designated for the opposite sex

You’d need to use completely different words for genders though, not just pretend that male/female man/woman and girl/boy are gender based.(lesbian/homosexual/mother/father etc would also need to be ringfenced as sex based)

Call the gender options transmasculine, transfeminine, nonbinary, whatever. If it’s completely separate to sex and doesn’t use our words it’s not really any of our business (I suppose equalities data would need to collect both sex and gender, with sex being compulsory and n/a option for gender?)

If it’s completely, totally separate to sex then it could probably be done on a Self ID basis?

Young transactivists might actually prefer this but the late transitioning males would burn Parliament to the ground before they’d give up the pretence of being female (see certain middle aged TV presenters offering to show their imaginary cervix as an example of this type of activist)

The comments to that tweet do show all sides angry at Labour.

But the tras will never accept any kind of compromise at all, though the gender critical side probably would.

I don't see how one could ever be reached, given the intransigence of the trans side, sadly, so I no longer want to see compromise even attempted as it's just seen as the first step toward the total rule of the gender identitarians and not any kind of settled situation.

I’m not sure what compromise would look like in practise?

As long as official forms would treat this as a section for those who identify into the religion and would allow all who don't identify into it not answer while clearly stating that they are non-believers this might work.

However, it would need new words for the identities so that 'man' and 'woman' would still mean what they always have meant. Perhaps 'gentlemen' and 'ladies' or something similar could be picked for the identitarian religious group?

Also, this could not entitle anyone to enter single-sex categories while being of the other sex, or be counted as a member of the oppressed sex for purposes of set-aside grants etc. just because of identity rather than because of sex.

There is no compromise to be made. Either you have mixed sex everything or you don't.

Nothing less than total capitulation is acceptable to the TRAs. All we want is our stuff back - our stuff that was stolen!

4w.pub/a-message-to-those-recently-opining/

So this is the choice

The Tories- who actually in all seriousness just a couple of years ago DID propose to introduce self ID… and they told objecting women to shut up, budge up, and be kind- right up until the mainstream media (The Times) and presumably some reality-based insiders told them it was a fucking disaster.
You’d think after that they’d be going for GRA repeal but no- they think women should be grateful for crumbs that self ID didn’t happen, so they have slashed the price of GRAs and then as far as women’s concerns go- we can still shut up and budge up and be kind.

The Tories will be doing nothing for us legally and so we are stuck with the £5 GRA and an unclarified Equality Act which doesn’t clearly separate sex and gender. In the meantime the legal advances for women that have been made have come from crowd funded legal actions that we have all chipped in for on here.

OR

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament. Labour clearly don’t have a fixed position yet on this issue. At least with that option we can try to influence the outcome. There’s absolutely no fucking way that the British public will stand for self ID, now they know all about male rapists self IDing into women’s prisons.
So what might this modernisation entail then? I don’t know, but as I have always said the Tories aren’t helping women by leaving us saddled with the status quo and not touching this issue because they can see it’s electorally controversial. With a year to go until a GE now is the time to really push for what we want, actual legal change. Not to be content to have our issues kicked into the long grass.

Modernise usually means make easier

I don’t feel much doubt re where Labour are headed

It’s a position of the left that we can see in many western countries

NZ is a good example, Canada too

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.

I don’t believe this for a second. Labour don’t have the stomach for all the hyperbole.

”Debating our LIVES! Whether we have the RIGHT TO EXIST! They want us to DIE!”

So many more Tories have been unequivocal compared to labour - even though May, Miller, Mordaunt and Nokes are Tories, as a whole, they are far more clear.

My God you are naive. Labour won't open this up for debate as they believe in 'no debate' - the idea that they will debate anything openly is a real joke.

Labour will relax the rules, encroach on women's rights even further and then whip the MPs to vote for it. Just like they did in Scotland. And you can see how much they welcome debate with Starmer's lack of defence of Rosie Duffield's right to her own opinion.

The Tories have not been as tough on this as I had hoped not least as they are fighting a captured NHS, education establishment and police force and have only the captured civil service to do it with - but at least the Tories won't make the situation worse.

Labour will make it worse. 100% they will. And at least Tory MPs can speak their minds and discuss it. At least most Tory members are for single sex spaces - you have to read the comments on any Telegraph article to see that - so there is no pressure on them from the wider party for gender recognition and weakened boundries - again unlike Labour whose grass roots seem to be full of baying mobs on the subject.

If Labour get in women's rights are toast - they best we can hope for is a hung parliament so Labour have their hands tied. I say this as a former Labour voter. God help us, because Starmer won't.

It’s a position of the left that we can see in many western countries

UK has been peaked I think by now. There’s more to come with Cass, but JKR and then the rapist Isla’s bulging pink leggings have really been noticed. SNP is falling apart.

the political pendulum is not moving towards self ID.

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.

Anyone have a link to that?

Best reply tweet https://twitter.com/Carter_AndrewJ/status/1641721200580648962?s=20

Labour actually will:

• Let Duffield keep the whip despite her transphobia now sinking to outright holocaust denial
• Help bigoted parents abuse their children by forcing schools to out pupils against their wishes
• Break every promise on this list to win the votes of mumsnet

Same has been done with surrogacy law reform.

The law is outdated
Not in-line with modern day life
It's not fit for purpose
The only way forward is for reform

Just because something is old (not yet 20 years for the GRA) doesn't mean it's not fit for purpose. What has happened in the last ten years or so means it is best repealed in my view, but if I was proposing this as an election manifesto promise at the very least I would have to explain why and not make sweeping, baseless statements.

@ChristinaXYZ Alba Party, SNP rivals, are also explicitly Gender Critical.

^^

That. I'll go for the one party dragging its feet over the ones running to embrace this woman-battering, child safeguarding abandoning, 'everyone who says no is a subhuman abuser' nutjobbery.

The Conservative Party is a real misnomer. They are the Pragmatic Party. They approach every issue with the question "What do we need to do to win or retain power?" I suspect that a larger proportion of their members are GC than are TRA but the bottom line is that they believe that more voters in variable constituencies are GC.

Well that's me convinced! Labour doesn't know it's arse from its elbow.

ResisterRex you said Anyone have a link to that? regarding:

Labour- who say they are going to open the GRA for democratic debate in Parliament.

I don’t get your point, sorry. Labour have said they will modernise the law around this. There isn’t anywhere else but Parliament for the law to be changed. What do you think is going to happen?

The SNP are toast. The UK public are not for self ID. That much if obvious to all politicians whatever party.

You can vote Tory for whatever reason you like but don’t not vote Labour because you think Labour will bring in self ID. They’re not going to. I find the Tory loyalty very odd given that until a few short years ago, before Boris realised it was a vote loser, the Tories were pushing self ID on us..

"Holocaust denial " is a new flex. They are so fucking desperate it's almost comical.