NBC are quoting a police chief in Nashville...

[FusionChefGeoff]

That's all I'm saying - Google is your friend and it's in the byline.

It's not the weapons that kill, it's the person with the weapon that kills

Which is exactly why we shouldn't be giving weapons out like candy. People can't handle guns. They hurt other and themselves.

I absolutely agree that a very serious discussion needs to be had about the possibility that testosterone may be making some women violent. Those stats that HALF the female mass shooters identify as trans is chilling. I also read of 2 more trans women in the US who shot people but either killed less than 4 people or shots weren't fatal.

In other words, some violence may be extremely simple to prevent: don't give off-label testosterone to women!!!

FWIW I am a very very strong opponent of guns. I want the strictest gun laws workable under our Constitution.

My thoughts are with the victims, their family’s and everyone else who was witness to this. I know the police get a hard time, but imagine having to deal with a live ‘shooter’ (hate that term, it seems to minimise) incident - the noise, the large building to search, the pressure, the nerves, the adrenaline, the fitness needed to run stairs and corridors with guns and protection, innocent children still in the building.

What the fuck has happened for this sort of incident to become the norm - it’s just horrifying.

.

Kiwi farms Nashville

It's not that. It's that there's little point in a mainly UK feminist site talking about US policy when US does not care how other countries view it's disgraceful stance on guns. Not does it recognise much feminist thought currently; it's a country which really believes in gender stereotypes, you just get to choose between trans religion or Christian religion.

Every single person I've spoken to today has reacted the same. We feel awful for American children and cannot imagine raising kids there. But nobody engages or watches the news about it any more. We all know there'll be another mass shooting shortly. What can we realistically do, except try to resist some of the pervasive US cultural influence, so we don't become the same?

To put US gun violence figures into some kind of context, there have been 11 reported shootings in Tennessee alone in the last 4 days.

7 shootings reported across the US so far today, resulting in 2 deaths and 7 injured. And it’s still only lunchtime on the West Coast.

Its a broken society.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

How incredibly sad that yet more children and school staff has lost their lives in this way.

Thank you to pp for their research on the subject of female shooters as well as data on offending patterns. I imagine it could be difficult for researchers to draw solid conclusions because numbers are relatively small but it certainly seems suggestive that testosterone exposure (even if not ongoing) is an important factor. It’s certainly recognised clinically that increased aggression can be seen in men abusing anabolic steroids.

I think the point about age is interesting too. We don’t know if this person has had puberty blockers but it seems entirely possible and there’s increasing concern about what effect that has on the brain (which we know doesn’t fully mature until around 25) development.

nepeta
For instance, testosterone clearly doesn't cause most men to turn into killers (in wars they are essentially forced to do that), so even if the explanation is biology-based, there's more to it.

Testosterone may well have a very different effect in women than in men. After all it is being introduced into an entirely different physiology.

Helena the detransitioner mentioned the horribly random irritable feelings she had when taking it. I think she said that here.
https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name?s=r

I have very high natural testosterone for a female due to PCOS. I get very angry prior to menstruation. I feel bad for men stuck like that all the time.

I have spoken to someone else with similar issues and she said going on the contraceptive pill took that anger away.

This isn't fake. This is the statement from the trans resistance network saying that it's super hard being trans. They don't actually excuse her gunning down a load of little kids but it's not far off.

ItIsFiat · Today 22:26
I have very high natural testosterone for a female due to PCOS. I get very angry prior to menstruation. I feel bad for men stuck like that all the time.

That is interesting, but how hard for you. Thank you for sharing that because it must be difficult.
In detransitioner Helena’s account ( I posted a bit earlier) she mentioned not only the anger, but being hospitalised for psychosis. She realised it was all the testosterone but no one ever mentioned it.

It seems far too little is known about the effects it may have on women.

Clymene · Today 23:16
This isn't fake. This is the statement from the trans resistance network saying that it's super hard being trans. They don't actually excuse her gunning down a load of little kids but it's not far off.

And urging anyone writing about her to “use his pronouns he/him”.

This is an indication of where the world is at this moment.

If testosterone plays a factor in male violence, that seems to go against the GC position?

Or does the GC position allow that some gendered behaviour is "hardwired" biological difference?

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying correctly? Testosterone might well be one of the biological factors that explain the differences in the propensity of males and females to commit violent or sexual crimes. But the role of socialisation is not to be underestimated, which is why NAMALT and why it has never been suggested, AFAIK, that testosterone levels could be used as a predictor of likelihood to commit such offences.

So it could well be a mix of biology and socialisation.

But isn't that what most people are going to believe about it? The result is that gender is maybe half real at least.

Socialisation is not gender

But the biology part may mean that certain traits are hardwired at least in the sense that they are more likely to express themselves. That would be real gender difference presumably.

From a feminist perspective women are oppressed by men due to their biology. Sex is real and does cause physical differences in strength and some behaviours likely related to evolution and hormones.
Gender is a social construct that says women and men should behave in certain ways, these ways may be different culturally but are always oppressive to women.

So women need to be protected due to their sex but are equal to men and do not need to act in any particular way, having a vagina is enough.

Gender is nothing to do with biology, gender is a social construct. Biological sex relates to the differences between men and women, including testosterone levels.

Gender is like saying women wear dresses and do the dishes. Gender is just a set of social norms/conditioning/tradition and vary culturally.

Biological sex says males are generally larger, have more testosterone, produce sperm and have a penis.

There are many, real, stark diferences between males and females.

This is why 'trans genderism' is a ridiculous term. Oh so you are trans-social construct? What about trans-philosophical? Or trans-religion. Or trans-cultural. Why would being trans-social construct mean you have to have surgery or take medication?

@PorcelinaV

But the biology part may mean that certain traits are hardwired at least in the sense that they are more likely to express themselves. That would be real gender difference presumably.

Biological differences = sex, not gender.

For years I’ve walked the line adhering MNHQ’s pandering rules about “misgendering”, which really means appropriately referring to a person’s sex. I’ve become accustomed to writing posts avoiding pronouns. So I can perfectly recognise the fact the media’s news article writers are bending over backwards to avoid using any pronouns for “the shooter” or “the suspect”. The media capture and the media fear is off the charts.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65106976

Here's the bodycam footage from the police officers who went into the school.

All men.

Testosterone doesn't just make men more likely to be violent it also makes them more likely to take physical risks on behalf of others.

We do need positive socialisation of men so that this propensity for physical reaction to high emotion is contained by societal norms.

Gender is not just a social construct but it does need socialising.

We need men's risk taking but we need it to be shaped into positive expression.

https://twitter.com/SaraGonzalesTX/status/1640722840319143938?t=kYc8bNEObc5-6Gx7UQRZGA&s=08

Feminists are becoming increasingly confused in their arguments around this and it's really obvious to non feminists.

You can't argue:
Testosterone contributes to high violence
Men have high testosterone
Men are more violent

But gender is just a social construct.

It's just illogical.

Violence is a gendered behavioural difference linked to biology. By your own admission.

So it can't be socially constructed.