Shocking scenes in Auckland, TRA pours liquid on KJK

[JacquelinePot]

I'm not even sure what to say about this, I just find it really shocking.

Baying mobs surrounded the intended event, one got onto the podium and poured red liquid all over KJK and KJK had to be removed amidst a huge crush.

I hope everyone is OK.

@Boiledbeetle I guess I could see them as either! Like I said I feel a bit confused and conflicted on the whole topic. But I know they would like to be regarded as women and I don’t have a major problem with that on the surface of it. I don’t feel super strongly that I don’t want them to identify as women or that I don’t want to regard them as women as long as that’s not butting right up against women’s rights and as long as I’m not being asked to deny what to me are basic truths IYKWIM. Who wouldn’t want to be a woman, I don’t blame them, we are awesome lol.

@Rainonthehorizon I read the Guardian a lot but I do feel they are a bit biased on this subject (I mean they have a left wing bias on everything but in most other topics it matches up with my own political views) I agree with you about this article which is why I came here, having said that they showed enough that I was shocked at how she was being treated.

I've heard more than one man say that they don't want third spaces because it would mean drawing attention to them.

Men in skirts and stilettos worried about drawing attention.

I want an honest recognition that the aspect of mind that trans women (and indeed, female people who feel they share that aspect of mind) experience is a different thing to being female bodied and therefore does not justify opening up female-only spaces, protections and opportunities to male people who have it, nor justify such male people taking it on themselves to claim they speak as and for "women" and expect their views to be accepted as "women's".

Once that is established, which is, after all, nothing more than a simple and obvious fact, then we can all stop this ridiculous side show of trying to fit trans needs into the pre existing sex-based structures and start doing what Stonewall et al should have been doing all along, which is fighting with feminists against gender stereotypes that constrain people from living happily as the sex they actually are, and working out and lobbying for whatever dedicated support, rights, services and protections (if any) gender non-conformong people need in the meantime until we get there.

Seriously are we now expected to put up with a parade of what about this man pretending to be a woman? What about this woman who thinks she's a man?

No!!!! Women are women. Men are men. Trans at the front means they wish they are the other sex, not that they are the other sex. So they can use the correct toilets, they must don't want to.

@rainonthehorizon, It's interesting that the link to that Guardian article says 'violent protests' but the headline says 'chaotic protests'. That suggests that someone has changed the headline in order to play down the violence to me.

Sorry, this was in reply to @Waitwhat23

In more humourous news, I like this response from Simon Edge to the account of the day from Auckland Pride.
https://twitter.com/simonjedge/status/1639653150876467200

I would absolutely welcome transmen into women’s spaces as they are biological women.

Transwomen need to start campaigning for men to accept them as non-conforming men (because that’s what they are) into their spaces.

Women aren’t here to budge up and hand over our spaces and rights just because some men say they’re women!

Anywhere but the women's.

Unfortunately, because wouldn't it be nice if life were more straightforward, I don't think it's as black and white as either side would have it.

Why should Jan Morris be in the women's? Because they're an old, grey haired person who couldn't possibly be a danger to anyone? Same could be said of Jimmy Savill and Gary Glitter yet here we are....

Males and females need seperate facilities. If people make choices that, in their opinions, makes the facilities for their sex no longer appropriate for them, then they should have factored that into the choices they made. Campaign for third and fourth spaces (cos that's next - TW can't possibly be safe sharing with TM, can they, what with the risks etc), carry a bucket and a pop up tent, get used to going behind a bush = I DON'T CARE. I don't give a flying fuck. It's not my problem to solve. Women are not the world's bloody mummies. You did this, not me. Fix it yourself. Hashtag allouttafucks

I have no idea why we, as a society, are expected to play a part in someone else’s fantasy.

If someone wants to live out their fantasy, it is on them to come down to Earth for a moment, now and then, when it impinges on others, and act with social decency. They alone are responsible. It is no one else’s duty or concern.

There was a Twitter account of a transwoman called Suki (now banned) who posted videos of himself masturbating in women’s toilets and you could clearly see girls behind him washing their hands.

How is that acceptable?

@garlicandsapphires I agree with you, it’s an extremely polarised debate, like everything else these days. And it’s actually very complex which is why I’m somewhere in the middle and finding it difficult as I feel like neither side tolerates anyone being unsure or in the middle somewhere. I grew up in the 1990s and feel like we had more tolerance back then for grey areas and a middle ground. Having said that I remember a lot of homophobia and racism back then which has definitely improved so maybe I’m just looking at it with rose tinted glasses.

Thanks for answering. I'm of the opinion that they may want to be regarded as women, but the trampling of women's rights and spaces means this is no longer viable. Pretending and colluding with their fantasies got us into this mess.

it has to stop before we stop existing as a specific group with specific needs that men just do not have. No transwomen is ever going to miscarry in a public toilet. No transwoman is ever gong to have to wash period blood off their hands. So they can trot off to their own toilets, the gents.

And don't even get me started on menopause initiatives that include middle aged men taking cross sex Hormones and reacting badly and calling it the menopause!

I hear Auckland is campaigning to be twinned with Kabul.

Knowing how warped and evil Jan Morris misogynistic beliefs were, I would count him amongst those I would least like to be in an enclosed space with when I am vulnerable.

I can forsee a lot edits needing to be made to that article, as the footage of the day is now very widespread and, in particular, the UK has now woken up today see quite a different account online to the one the Guardian are attempting to portray. Plus JK Rowling will have further amplified that something serious has happened in New Zealand.

But it is.

Men are men women are women. It's that simple.

And to take as an example rape crisis services. Edinburgh and the Lothians currently have no single sex rape crisis groups. They are all mixed sex. JKR has taken enormous amounts of abuse for daring to talk about opening one, single solitary single sex service. It won't impact on the multitude of mixed sex options available at all. But TRA's are outraged that such services simply exist for women who need single sex services. Brighton has a similar situation and IamSarah has taken appalling amounts of abuse from TRA's who have to make up lies that mixed sex services will be cut because even they realise the poor optics of admitting that they believe that women shouldn't be allowed to have anything for themselves.

It's ideological and women hating.

Yes! There are no grey areas here,men are men,women are women and anyone pretending to be the opposite sex is not something in between the two.

Yes, of all the societal power imbalances, the delineation between male and female is the most black and white, the most clear cut, by far.

There are only two sexes and no third gamete.

.

@garlicandsapphires
How can the definition of 'woman' be incendiary? This is the point of the billboard - why would anyone who is rational and grounded in reality be upset by the actual definition of woman? Being a woman is not offensive!

If some men want to live in a fantasy that they are women and live in a way that they feel is 'like a woman', fine. But they cannot impose this on the rest of us and throw a tantrum anytime reality hits. It is not a healthy way to live. They also cannot change the definition of the word woman to something which includes males!

The problem with giving any sort of credence to people like Dr Harrop getting uppity about a billboard is that it ends up leading to the scenes we have seen in New Zealand where a baying mob of men are allowed to intimidate a woman for speaking the truth. This should have been nipped in the bud years ago and not allowed to escalate.

Isn't it the 8th rule of misogyny? Men are what they say they are and women are what men say we are.

Behind the scenes, women's rights are being undermined everyday and across the world by gender ideology.

Kellie-Jay's genius is that she is bringing this to people's attention and showing the intolerant misogynists up for what they are. She isn't doing anything except speaking the truth, and look at the reaction she gets. They are showing their true colours and I hope as many people as possible are waking up to it. Gender ideology is an ugly boil which needs to be lanced and she is the one with the needle!

Because images of big burly bearded transwomen in dresses are forever given as examples of the absurdity of the whole debate (rightly so) but here is someone who lived for many years 'as a woman', had surgery - and it would be horribly exclusive to deny them the dignity of being called a women. Yes of course they're not literally and biologically a women.
Do people really not see this??

I do worry about language and protected spaces, but I worry about transpeople too.