World Athletics

[rioseco]

Press conference by Seb Coe stating that male to female transgender athletes who have gone through male puberty will be excluded from female competition!
At last.

[viques]

@Mommymoments

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/athletics/2022/03/24/sonia-osullivan-transgender-athletes-cannot-be-allowed-to-compete-in-womens-sport-1.4834586/

Excellent article from Irish athlete Sonia O Sullivan

Interesting that Sonia O’Sullivan references Nyonsaba’s world record for the 2000m , which I think SS herself had held and which had been unbeaten for well over 20 years. Nyonsaba broke it by four whole seconds. If this record is allowed to stand, which it will, then there is little or no chance of a natal woman ever holding that particular record again, because, as good as they are, no female athlete is going to be able to run four seconds faster than an athlete with XY chromosomes, with the lung size, pelvic formation, heart capacity , muscle strength, testosterone strength boost and bone size that male puberty imparts.

I am pleased that in the future female athletes will know that ( most) female records are held by female competitors, running fairly. Those of us who watched sports in the bad old days of iffy drug testing remember athletes like Flo Jo, whose undoubtably drug enhanced records skewed the record books for years, not to mention the Russian and East German athletes whose cheating deprived many, including Sharron Davis, of their moment on the podium .

[Truthlikeness]

@puffyisgood

As you say, it seems highly unlikely that CS meaningfully 'identities as a woman", based on the boorish, exaggeratedly macho and sexist persona she projects in interviews. Even if you were to (wrongly) accept CS as biologically female, CS is, by TRA standards, unambiguously a 'trans man', though funnily enough doesn't seem to want to run with men. It's often overlooked that CS won gold in London whilst taking female hormones but now refuses to same them, given that running (and associated earning opportunities) is CS's only source of income I can only conclude that CS really strongly dislikes the feminising effects of taking female hormones.

Telling an otherwise normal and healthy male they can run in a women's race if they take drugs to artificially reduce their testosterone (which will have knock on health impacts) is irresponsible to DSD athletes, in addition to women.

[WarningToTheCurious]

@Rainbowshit

The biological parentage of CS's kids isn't in the public domain. CS does have internal testes (and obviously no womb, eggs, etc) and has gone on record as saying that IVF took multiple attempts, possibly hinting at a degree of complexity/difficulty, but my limited understanding suggests that it's relatively unlikely that CS is the father. I'd imagine that, had this been the case, it'd have been of comparable scientific interest to the wider story around her biology. As with all parents facing fertility issues it's a delicate area.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6772989/amp/Intersex-skiing-champion-say-transgender-women-NOT-compete-female-events.html

This skier has the same DSD as Caster and has fathered a child.

I think if Caster had fathered his child they would not want that information in the public domain as it would destroy this myth that Caster is actually female when that's not the case. Gathering a child would be a very big clue to Caster's actual sex.

Semenya has already publicly confirmed their 5-ARD status in their CAS appeal.

It’s no secret that Semenya has an exclusively male condition.

[Dougalskeeper]

No trans identifying men should be in women's sports at any level. As for XY DSDs, they are still men, just because they didn't grow a dick in utero it doesn't make them women. Women are not disordered men

[DuesToTheDirt]

@Mommymoments

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/athletics/2022/03/24/sonia-osullivan-transgender-athletes-cannot-be-allowed-to-compete-in-womens-sport-1.4834586/

Excellent article from Irish athlete Sonia O Sullivan

Bit of a muddled article IMO.

It all comes back to the reasons why we have a women’s sporting category in the first place. It’s so that women can compete against the same gender, at the same level.

Should be "same sex", not "same gender". Sex and gender are really not synonymous in this case. Likewise,

The issue of transgender female athletes isn’t yet a major talking point among current athletes, maybe more so among those passionate about protecting women’s sport.

They aren't female, they're transwomen and they're male.

[Mommymoments]

That's the best we've had in Ireland. There is state censorship in place regarding trans reporting & lots of pro trans propaganda. The irish times posted an article about Barbie Kardashian on Wednesday & it was deleted.

[Rainbowshit]

@WarningToTheCurious

The general public don't understand that 5-ARD is a male DSD. They sure as shit understand that fathering a child makes someone is male.

Caster has very much played the sympathy card with the general public, a lot of whom still think Caster is female.

[NotBadConsidering]

The general public think Semenya is female or a woman because all media insist on calling Semenya a “woman with naturally high testosterone levels” 🙄

[puffyisgood]

@NotBadConsidering

The general public think Semenya is female or a woman because all media insist on calling Semenya a “woman with naturally high testosterone levels” 🙄

it's absolutely true, in the sense that her T levels reached male heights via the efforts of her (clearly well functioning) testicles, rather than via 'unnatural' means such as a syringe.

[WarningToTheCurious]

@Rainbowshit

@WarningToTheCurious

The general public don't understand that 5-ARD is a male DSD. They sure as shit understand that fathering a child makes someone is male.

Caster has very much played the sympathy card with the general public, a lot of whom still think Caster is female.

Yep, because the public is being gaslighted about DSD athletes. Anyone pointing out that Semenya, Mboma, Wambui et al are biologically male are accused of being racist.

I think Michael Johnson got close to being allowed to explain it on the BBC once.

[NotBadConsidering]

@puffyisgood

it's absolutely true, in the sense that her T levels reached male heights via the efforts of her (clearly well functioning) testicles, rather than via 'unnatural' means such as a syringe.

It’s absolutely not true, because Semenya is not a woman. Semenya has normal testosterone levels for a male.

[cherriestort]

@Rainbowshit

@WarningToTheCurious

The general public don't understand that 5-ARD is a male DSD. They sure as shit understand that fathering a child makes someone is male.

Caster has very much played the sympathy card with the general public, a lot of whom still think Caster is female.

I know, it's absolutely crazy!
I think because there was such a reaction when he first on the scene, but in interviews he calls himself a man...I have no idea why people think he's done repressed individual? He's fine really well out of basically having his balls indeed his body rather than on the outside?

But Yay for the ruling!

[DrBlackbird]

PMK for the informative posting.

[lieselotte]

Now I wonder if parkrun will stop male bodied people holding female course records...

[BellaAmorosa]

@lieselotte

Now I wonder if parkrun will stop male bodied people holding female course records...

Are they governed by World Athletics, do you know?

[WarningToTheCurious]

I expect the wokey wokes at Parkrun will still prioritise inclusion over fairness - the WA policy only applies at elite level.

[mb2512cat]

@lieselotte

Now I wonder if parkrun will stop male bodied people holding female course records...

OMG is that really happening?

[megletthesecond]

Parkrun have allowed a male runner to hold a woman's course record. I complained and got a 'be kind' reply.

[nolongersurprised]

@BellaAmorosa

CAIS women are classed as male. They produce the hormones of a normal male puberty but cannot utilise the benefits. They do not go through female puberty. They never have to cope with periods and the associated problems which affect training like pain, secretion of relaxin which renders ligaments looser at certain points in the cycle. They also grow significantly stronger and taller than women though they not as strong on average as men. This may seem like an "edge case", but at the end of the day CAIS women are male. They have a clear advantage in sport, though not as dramatic as other males do, therefore should not be in female competition.
Incidentally this is another problem with framing the policy as excluding males who have gone through male puberty.

Athletes with CAIS have always been allowed to compete against women though. They were allowed decades ago when obligatory chromosome testing (cheek swab) occurred and they were allowed when testosterone lowering guidelines were mandated a few years ago.

The athletes who have to lower their testosterone are XY DSD athletes who are androgen sensitive, ie they’ve gone through a form of male puberty. CAIS athletes are exempt - they’re XY but androgen insensitive.

However, if it was up to me, I’d ban them as well. When chromosomal testing was mandated they were found to be overrepresented at the Olympics cf their natural level of occurrence. There will be other advantages, maybe related to height, bone structure, lack of periods

[BellaAmorosa]

@nolongersurprised

Athletes with CAIS have always been allowed to compete against women though. They were allowed decades ago when obligatory chromosome testing (cheek swab) occurred and they were allowed when testosterone lowering guidelines were mandated a few years ago.

The athletes who have to lower their testosterone are XY DSD athletes who are androgen sensitive, ie they’ve gone through a form of male puberty. CAIS athletes are exempt - they’re XY but androgen insensitive.

However, if it was up to me, I’d ban them as well. When chromosomal testing was mandated they were found to be overrepresented at the Olympics cf their natural level of occurrence. There will be other advantages, maybe related to height, bone structure, lack of periods

I said "classed as male" as in their DSD is one that affects males only. The medical classification, not the athletic category.
The fact that the Barr bodies testing identified CAIS athletes was one of the excuses used to ditch it. This was supposed evidence of its unreliability!

[BellaAmorosa]

*supposedly

[Birdsweepsin]

@Mommymoments

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22229491/

A link from Morning Ireland TV show this morning featuring a transgender scientist saying science backs trans & a male doctor.
NO women interviewed to give their perspective. It's state controlled censorship.
Again this is an example of the current transgender propoganda that's awash in Irish media.

Joanna Harper sounds a bit terfy.

Asked about Lord Coe saying the overarching principle is protecting the female category in sport, she agrees before going on to waffle about how trans women haven't dominated any of their sports, so what are you all worrying about.

She surely should have said 'trans women are women so they are automatically included in the female category irrespective of testosterone levels, and how dare you imply that anyone would ever lie to gain a competitive advantage, they just want to be their true authentic selves'?

[BettyFilous]

Joanna Harper has been studying the impact of transition on TW’s performance. If I was to make a guess as to why 3/4 of Harper’s study participants dropped out, I would wager the early results were not supporting Harper’s hypothesis. Harper knows the game is up and is slowly reverse ferreting.

[Ttwinkletoes]

Ireland, New Zealand, Scotland - Oh, and Canada.
Falling over themselves to be wokey pokey and sooooo inclusvie - look what a lovey country we are our friendly people are sooo kind.
In fact I think NZ and Canada have a poor native residents record, Ireland has only just moved into the 21st C after years following Catholic patriarchal rules. And Scotland - sooo inclusive --- unless you're English and if you support the wrong team in the wrong place, watch your back.

[CherryCokeFanatic]

Saw this on Reddit today, an amusing analogy

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/121v5in/bicyclist_ftw/