World Athletics

[rioseco]

Press conference by Seb Coe stating that male to female transgender athletes who have gone through male puberty will be excluded from female competition!
At last.

It's not relevant. All that is needed to be known is the DSD that Semenya has, which is one that only male people develop.

Hear, hear!
They all know they are male and they are happily cheating women out of medals, sponsorship, prize money and accolades. No one should feel sorry for them.

My entire women's sports team was removed from a league for questioning the safety and fairness of including transwomen. For the sake of one biological male competing, a whole squad of women were excluded.

The biological parentage of CS's kids isn't in the public domain. CS does have internal testes (and obviously no womb, eggs, etc) and has gone on record as saying that IVF took multiple attempts, possibly hinting at a degree of complexity/difficulty, but my limited understanding suggests that it's relatively unlikely that CS is the father. I'd imagine that, had this been the case, it'd have been of comparable scientific interest to the wider story around her biology. As with all parents facing fertility issues it's a delicate area.

It is welcome news, however, it should NEVER have come to this and the reason it has is because of overwhelming, deep seated misogyny, if it wasn't the very first time the idea was put forward the answer would have been a resounding NO.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22229491/

A link from Morning Ireland TV show this morning featuring a transgender scientist saying science backs trans & a male doctor.
NO women interviewed to give their perspective. It's state controlled censorship.
Again this is an example of the current transgender propoganda that's awash in Irish media.

The biological parentage of CS's kids isn't in the public domain. CS does have internal testes (and obviously no womb, eggs, etc) and has gone on record as saying that IVF took multiple attempts, possibly hinting at a degree of complexity/difficulty, but my limited understanding suggests that it's relatively unlikely that CS is the father. I'd imagine that, had this been the case, it'd have been of comparable scientific interest to the wider story around her biology. As with all parents facing fertility issues it's a delicate area.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6772989/amp/Intersex-skiing-champion-say-transgender-women-NOT-compete-female-events.html

This skier has the same DSD as Caster and has fathered a child.

I think if Caster had fathered his child they would not want that information in the public domain as it would destroy this myth that Caster is actually female when that's not the case. Gathering a child would be a very big clue to Caster's actual sex.

Irish men want women back under their boot perhaps.

Joanna Harper, scientist and trans athlete speaks to Kate Varley as the World Athletics Council announces they are to ban transwomen from participating in female category events; Prof Donal O'Shea, Endocrinologist, also gives his reaction to the decision.
Please watch the above link & see the trans propaganda that is currently ruling Irish media
So fucking one sided. Women don't get to have an opinion.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22229491

@AlliwantforChristmasisgu
Spot on.

If transwomen have a demonstrable disadvantage compared to men who are not transwomen, then maybe they should create a separate category.
Or the men claiming to be women could choose between not taking hormones OR taking hormones and playing at a lower level?

Yes I was trying to phrase it in a delicate way. There was an article I read from an Oxford academic who was arguing that Caster was female and should be in female races and I did think the presumption Caster has fathered two children should be taken into account but I couldn’t find the article about fathering children.

Just catching up. Really good news that World Athletics have finally got the right eligibility criteria. Fantastic tweet from ESSA, so the trickle down has been almost immediate.

Very clever move by Seb to set up a working group involving transgender athletes to look at the science and data. On R4 he said there is very little data for transgender athletes compared to DSD athletes. We all know data is the one thing TRAs don’t want as it very rarely, if ever, supports their beliefs.

I do have sympathy for athletes with DSD, but being fair can sometimes mean imposing harsh criteria. I do wonder if the new maximum limits will see some try to achieve it but find the impact is so great that their quality of life is affected as well as their athletic ability.

I did think the presumption Caster has fathered two children should be taken into account but I couldn’t find the article about fathering children.

There's no evidence that Semenya is the biological father I'm aware of - it's pure supposition and rumour, based on the fact that it's often possible for 5-ARD males to father children.

Not that I'm saying it's not true - it's just we have no evidence either way. I don't believe Semenya has ever commented.

It's a case of Chinese whispers - various people have pointed out that 5-ARD people could often father children, and that caused supposition that Semenya may have done, and now it seems to be a "fact" people wrongly remember.

I have sympathy with those who live with life-threatening or life-shortening conditions, but a male with 46 XY, ARD is just a male with non-standard appearing genitals. There is no way anyone would think the athletes listed higher up in the thread were women if they weren't presented to the world as such in athletic competitions. I don't think any of them were brought up as girls, either - the condition is quite well known locally in some areas because it runs in families.
One such athlete - I think it might be Beatrice Masilingi - does claim to be a woman but essentially what they are relying on is their legally female status due to the incorrect sex being recorded on their birth certificates. CS in particular, I've never seen any evidence of claiming to be a woman outside of competition. CS does not try to present as a woman, I've seen videos of CS dressed and acting just like your average bloke.

@NecessaryScene @RoseslnTheHospital @Tinysoxxx @puffyisgood
Fair enough if it is not a proven fact that CS fathered those two children. I stand corrected.
And (note to myself) the ARD stands for alpha reductase deficiency.

Joanna Harper thinks regulating testosterone levels are “ a reasonable compromise between fairness and inclusion”.

Do these people actually listen to themselves! Actually expecting women to sacrifice fairness in competition to pander to some ones need to be validated included in an event that they are not eligible to enter in the first place because of their biology.

Has anyone asked male athletes if they would allow female athletes a head start in mixed races, say 3.5 seconds for the 100m. Would they see that as a reasonable compromise between fairness and inclusion? Because hells bells, as a woman though sadly not an athlete, but if I were I would love to win the Mens 100 m at the Paris Olympics after all it’s the blue ribbon event at any athletic meeting.

@viques welcome to Ireland where women have no voice.

Whether or not Caster has fathered children, you can be 100% sure he has not been the mother of any.

I've reported my comment about CS, children and the DSD affecting CS for (inadvertent) misinformation so hopefully it will disappear soon.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow
Whether or not Caster has fathered children, you can be 100% sure he has not been the mother of any.

Precisely. That's the nub of it.

As you say, it seems highly unlikely that CS meaningfully 'identities as a woman", based on the boorish, exaggeratedly macho and sexist persona she projects in interviews. Even if you were to (wrongly) accept CS as biologically female, CS is, by TRA standards, unambiguously a 'trans man', though funnily enough doesn't seem to want to run with men. It's often overlooked that CS won gold in London whilst taking female hormones but now refuses to same them, given that running (and associated earning opportunities) is CS's only source of income I can only conclude that CS really strongly dislikes the feminising effects of taking female hormones.

A great article by Debbie Hayton, as is often the case.

Catching up late to the party - this is great news!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/athletics/2022/03/24/sonia-osullivan-transgender-athletes-cannot-be-allowed-to-compete-in-womens-sport-1.4834586/

Excellent article from Irish athlete Sonia O Sullivan