Labour ‘must fix its trans stance to win the next election’ - party needs to clarify its policies to be closer to the public’s views on the debate

[IwantToRetire]

Labour is trying to position itself as the party of the centre-ground of British politics. It has identified middle-aged, suburban women as a target demographic to win over ahead of the general election.

Labour strategists have studied polling that shows how a gender gap in voting has emerged since 2010, whereby women are on average more likely to vote Labour.

But the polling notes that Labour’s advantage is “specifically among women under 50”, while the Tories lead in women over 50.

It comes as a network of Labour activists and staffers prepares to relaunch itself next month as a think tank that will produce monthly reports on how the party can appeal to its target voters.

The organisation, called Labour Together, aims to come up with a raft of policy recommendations that reposition the party as “socially to the Right and economically to the Left”.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/18/labour-must-fix-trans-stance-win-next-election/

I think you might be surprised.

The DM's coverage of this issue has significantly ramped up the public discussion.

I loathe the DM with a passion but it's a widely read paper and it's making a difference. And in this instance, I'm glad.

Now I need to lie in a darkened room.......

I mean, it's pink news but this video of starmer is pretty good evidence

www.thepinknews.com/2021/06/10/keir-starmer-labour-party-gender-recognition-act-self-id-trans-people-pride/

2 minutes 25 seconds on the video.

“We’re campaigning to ensure conversion therapy is banned once and for all, and we’re committed to updating the GRA to introduce self-declaration for trans people.”

Tories know how to prioritise 1-2 issues to win.
The next elections will be decided almost entirely on immigration and women’s rights.

Keep telling yourself that, if it helps. The SNP told itself the same, then shed a third of its membership in a year, thanks to the GRR. Penny Mordaunt told herself that, and lost the Tory leadership contest, having been a front runner.

Are most of the electorate going to vote on the basis of a party’s stance on self ID? No

Are enough of the electorate going to be influenced by this debate for it to cost Labour? Well, let’s see.

Self ID isn’t just about the issue itself, it’s also about credibility, competence and common sense. Do you think there are many Red Wall voters who think that men can grow a cervix (David Lammy) or that a rapist can be a woman? The privileged young people who espouse these ideas are heavily concentrated in a few constituencies that will vote Labour anyway. Electorally, Labour has nothing to gain from shouting that TWAW, and much to lose. Starmer finally seems to have noticed that, but it is too late. They have nailed their colours to the mast.

At least 90% of the public have no particular interest in the trans 'debate', including older women. A party's stance on it is not going affect election outcomes. I don't get how everyone involved in all sides fails to realise this.
I'm mystified by this. What do you think brought Sturgeon down?

Well, @Kucinghitam, Labour may not be claiming Brexit is a but it does have a "5-point plan to Make Brexit Work". It's on the party's official website.

As Keir Starmer says "Britain will not go back into the EU. We will not be joining the single market. We will not be joining a customs union."

I think Keir Starmer is hoping very much that the Conservatives are stupid enough to try and use Gender Politics as an election issue

LOL of course he is. That’s why he’s trying to reverse ferret.

The Tories know a wedge issue when they see one.

Self ID isn’t just about the issue itself, it’s also about credibility, competence and common sense.

yup

it’s about that special sort of elitism where people think they can get me to say that black is white and men are women

fuck off with that shit

I’m just never going to vote for a party that shows so little respect to voters

Managed to copy and paste and then delete a bit in my post

Ahem.
Labour may not be claiming Brexit is a brilliant buccaneering big-British-bollocks success...

Given the polling, I'm not certain that Labour need to fix anything to win the next election.

www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

Yeah, to me what has been revealed more clearly over the past few years is something deeper and more worriesom.

The fact that the leftist collectivist authoritarian thing wasn't a weird blip in the first half of the 20th century, but seems to be a real cancer in the bud for left politics.

The fact that they have wholesale adopted id politics thinking, but also that this reveals a problem in the way they think about groups and class analysis more generally, which is why they were so vulnerable to this. Specifically, that differences between groups, even disparities, are not always inherently unfair or discriminatory even if they are negative, and also that what we could as a group may or may not have real validity and is game that it is very easy to cheat at.

Serious issues in the way party politics happen on that side of the fence.

Serious questions around the whole idea of social progress, and around freedom as the most important facet of human life.

Plus the fact that it's pretty clear now that these are very much the parties of the urban upper middle class university graduate and that they despise those who aren't from that group.

That's an impressive margin.
But Labour do have form for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory..
Whilst I would broadly agree that trans rights are not on the top of the list of priorities for most people, situations like the rapist in Scotland attract a lot of attention and very little support.
Most people don't think about lots of things until it either becomes personal or unavoidable.

Ha at this. Yes of course he is.

I don't know who electoral calculus are but I do know that what they are showing on their website is total bollocks.

They have my constituency (a very, very safe Conservative seat) likely to swing >80% Labour at the next GE. It's just not going to happen. Goodness only knows what they are basing their stats on.

Even in the heady days of New Labour this constituency stayed Conservative and has been like that for 100 years.

The negative publicity around reform of the GRR didn't do much for Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP as a whole - they lost rather a lot of members if recent revelations are to be believed.

I think the point is that by keeping the issue in the public consciousness The Labour party is going to have its feet held to the fire in every interview going forward whenever this comes up. Even if it doesn't prevent Labour being elected it is going to make for a very uncomfortable situation for them. A lot of light will be shone on the ramifications of queer theory in practice and they will no longer be able to operate in darkness behind the scenes - and they know it.

Yes I agree.
Not just we women who need protection. What about the children too? No one in Labour has said anything about the Tavistock Scandal that I can see. Does Labour even care about British children?

I was horrified to read this morning on a Glinner Substack update that Switzerland has been allowing children as young as 10-14 to have surgical trans operations with parental consent

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/a-week-in-the-war-on-women-monday-fb0

It proper put me off my cornflakes 😡.

Not for the majority, no - but it will be for enough people to keep it in the debate. Also Kemi Badenoch is not going to let this go - and she'll be awesome in opposition.

We've come a long way in the last six years or so. We've manged to get it into the public realm and into the media. It was disastrous for the SNP - and Labour will hopefully learn from that.

Cultural issues are becoming increasingly imporant for many people; it is no longer just about economics and class; and the fact is that many of those people that used to be represented bty the Labour Party are far more conservative on social and cultural issues than they profess to be.

The media and a noisy minority on social media amplified by Mail, Telegraph and Co largely brought Sturgeon down. Yes, the issues have been raised in public profile but that doesn't necessarily translate to a mass vote-influencer when every other issue in this country is considered.

The Tories don't give a fuck about women, but a culture war is a handy weapon to batter people your voters don't like because it covers for the fact you have nothing whatsoever to offer to actually improve the lives of most of the British public. Not saying Labour does either, but do not for a moment be kidded that the Tory's stance is feminist or in remotely good faith towards women.

The media and a noisy minority on social media amplified by Mail, Telegraph and Co largely brought Sturgeon down

Ah yes, the Scottish Indy movement hangs on Viscount Rothermere's every word.

The media and a noisy minority on social media amplified by Mail, Telegraph and Co largely brought Sturgeon down.

Can happen to anyone. Starmer already knows it hence fence sitting and trying to push the issue away.

He doesn’t want to go off in his face too. We’ll see. GEs can bring up issues that were not polling just a short bit of time previously as Corbyn found out with antisemitism.

do not for a moment be kidded that the Tory's stance is feminist or in remotely good faith towards women.

@Echobelly If you read through the whole thread and similar threads you will see that not many are claiming they love the Tory govt. It's just that rather a lot of us have an issue voting for a party that thinks TWAW and that women's rights and child safe-guiding have no value. Some of Labour are on record saying a woman can have a penis FFS. How can you take anyone seriously, let alone trust them to run the country who thinks that ? 😂

Since this is a teeny-tiny unimportant fringe issue only concerning a teeny-tiny unimportant subset of an eternally unimportant insignificant demographic (middle-aged partially-sentient support bipeds) and Labour are enjoying a completely unassailable lead in the polls, it greatly puzzles me why anybody feels the need to scold the aforementioned teeny-tiny teeny-tiny teeny-tiny unimportant insignificant nobodies for being disobliging in where they choose to put (or not put) their X.

If the Tories have any sense, these quotes will be on election posters! Truly disgraceful set of statements from MPs who should know better.
What female MP can really believe TWAW? A very dumb one who can never represent me.

Some have been scoffing at how unimportant it all
is for ages. Long enough to see Penny M and NS to go…

I think that's @Kucinghitam 's point (she is being ironic).