Labour ‘must fix its trans stance to win the next election’ - party needs to clarify its policies to be closer to the public’s views on the debate

[IwantToRetire]

Labour is trying to position itself as the party of the centre-ground of British politics. It has identified middle-aged, suburban women as a target demographic to win over ahead of the general election.

Labour strategists have studied polling that shows how a gender gap in voting has emerged since 2010, whereby women are on average more likely to vote Labour.

But the polling notes that Labour’s advantage is “specifically among women under 50”, while the Tories lead in women over 50.

It comes as a network of Labour activists and staffers prepares to relaunch itself next month as a think tank that will produce monthly reports on how the party can appeal to its target voters.

The organisation, called Labour Together, aims to come up with a raft of policy recommendations that reposition the party as “socially to the Right and economically to the Left”.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/18/labour-must-fix-trans-stance-win-next-election/

Oh I was agreeing with her 😀

The "culture war", in this instance, is being waged by the left and so called progressives. They are alienating a growing number of people, and there is bound to be push back.

The fight against reform to the GRA was grassroots in origin; it is only in the last couple of years that the Times ( via Janice Turner) picked up on it. They knew that their subscriptions had risen in alarge part due to disaffected old lefties who could no longer stomach The Guardian.

Cultural issues are increasingly important; so trying to dismiss them as " justculture wars" is to under-estimate their importance. We've already seen what happens when the progressive left abandons its previous core demographics in favour of educated, middle class city dwellers.

The Labour party in its current form is not very popular with anyone, let alone its own membership - many of whom hate Kier Starmer. That it is ahead in the polls is down to 13 years of the same bunch in power plus all of the other issues around rising fuel and food prices. I'm not sure that many people have high hopes for what they are going to be able to achieve.

Ah, gotcha 🙂

The fact is that a lot of scots who are in favour of independence are not progressives in the manner of the SNP in its recent guise. The SNP actually used to be referred to as the Tartan Tories.

Most people are not in favour of self ID when they actually know what it implies; and that includes many of the core SNP vote.

The new women's movement has been grassroots in origin - and only recently picked up by the media. That's great as far as I'm concerend and I don't care which media has picked up on it. 'No debate' is now over.

I'm reminded of the days when people used to come to FWR to tell us how silly we were and that there were only six of us and our sock puppets anyway. They don't do that so much nowadays.

Not to mention as has been seen repeatedly (Brexit a major example) what people say as their intention and their actual intention when it matters, are often two very different things. Some of which may be using a theoretical vote as an indication of anger and protest against one of the two major parties, and some of which may be the current forced narrative that no good person ever votes anything but Labour. And yet in the ballot box.....

I’m glad they have at least realised it’s going to be significant in the election.

At our local election, the Labour candidate told us he'd heard it repeatedly on the doorsteps. They had their heads in the sand. Still do, I'm sure.

I think that is totally illogical, unless you have a parallel universe in which Labour have been in power since 2010 and you have compared the two?

We can't be sure, you or me BUT:

I don't think Labour would have been anything like as bad because most of the issues i ve mentioned are due to spending cuts and Labour, historically are more for public services, plus Labour wouldn't have had Brexit and hence the huge cost to the economy that has caused.
Its the Tories that slashed the NHS that now a woman cannot get a female doctor if she wants one & the Tories who have opened many more gender clinics.

Finally, Labour have far more women in Parliament, the Tories are dominated by men and whilst they have had 3 female leaders, all of them were hardly pro female, Thatcher didn't even have a single female cabinet minster & its May who opened up all this recent angst when she tried to "update" the GRA.

I can only judge on the reality of Tory rule, not on maybe's.

Labour have made it very clear what they think a woman is. Their definition includes the bepenised.

Therefore I don’t need them to have been in power to know they would have decimated women’s rights.

How can you advocate for something when you can’t define it?

I’m sure under labour you would be able to get a female doctor. You’d just be arrested for a hate crime when you objected to her cock and balls.

The Tories don't give a fuck about women, but a culture war is a handy weapon to batter people your voters don't like because it covers for the fact you have nothing whatsoever to offer to actually improve the lives of most of the British public. Not saying Labour does either, but do not for a moment be kidded that the Tory's stance is feminist or in remotely good faith towards women.

This seems to be the genius aspect of it. The tories have no issue saying what a woman is. That they couldn't give a toss about the material circumstances of many women is neither here nor there, the fact is they know what one is and that appears to be enough. Remarkable really.

Labour have far more women in Parliament,

When you say women.....?

And that is the crux of the problem right there @BorisisaLune

Because Labour believe in such bonkers nonsense that if a man says he is a woman then he's a woman, then ALL Labour politicians could be women. In fact Labour could promote themselves as the first all woman political party because according to Labour the word 'woman' has come to mean everyone as long as they feel like a woman.

It really is mind boggling.

I live in Wales. I don't trust Keir Starmer or Drakeford! Starmer could easily change his mind and I think Drakeford has lost the plot!

Whereas Labour care so deeply about women that they defend incarcerating vulnerable women with rapists.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow Labour have no clue. They certainly won't get my vote and I think any success on their part will be down to the shit show of the last decade+ of tory rule rather any inspiring rhetoric or policy from Starmer et al. They treat their minorities like garbage, have spent far too long outside checking which way the wind is blowing and don't appear to have much to offer any particular group let alone the general public.

The Tories quite clearly do have some very effective members who care deeply about women. Frankly it sometimes seems to me more so than the LP. I'm not sure why people keep trying to insist that they don't.

Parties, of course, aren't people and don't "care" about anything.

As far as whether women, or anyone, would be economically better off under Labour - maybe to a certain extent. The Tories, and the nation, have not been well served by the years they adopted libertarian economics over conservative economics, which they believed were ultimately better for all. OTOH, I am not totally convinced that Labour would have had great solutions either, they too in the end embraced neoliberal economics, and they also have a tendency to neglect productivity and real jobs and think that social supports can somehow fill in the gap. I also suspect they would still be struggling with the deeper problems many countries are in terms of health services (soaring costs and questions about what the job of social healthcare really is.) And the issues of supply chain, fuel, and food shortages are international.

Any claim that things would be better under Labour needs something fairly appealing to be be convincing, and it's just a pretty blah outlook no matter how you slice it.

We are dealing with fundamental basics here though - without a word to describe ourselves we cannot fight for women’s rights or to improve the condition of women. At the moment we have to go with the Tories so we have that word, so we can describe ourselves, so we retain data to prove our lot, and a method to fight for it. With labour we would just have to take what we have and have no means to object then or in the future, including if the Tories returned to power.

Though the Tories’ grip on the word is precarious,

Sorry if this has already been said but will only have time later to read the 6 pages of posts later tonight.

So if Labour think they need the votes of older women who (silly old mums) that you cant change sex, will they also allow all the women who have been expelled from the Labour party who have said you cant change sex.

Because if not then clearly this is just some stupid tactic and not worth the paper or whatsapp message it was written on.

If they dont readmit them and allow them to have stalls, speak on platforms, then they are only exposing themselves as liars, and thinking that (older) women are so senile they will be taken in by false statements.

Lets see what they say will be their policy re reform of the GRA and blocking the Scottish GRR.

The left are clowns.

You have in Scotland, Sturgeon Swinson making a jackass of themselves only to be topped by Humza who may be arrested for his own trans hate crime law.

Humza should have spoken to Gnostic Lib Dem Layla Moron to see if Pink leggins 'The double rapist individual' was a man or woman as she can see into souls!

Angela Rayner is a human radiator keeping seats warm for those who calk themselves Jimmy Saviles apprentice and told middleaged women that she didn't want our votes. Whilst Nandy wants pink leggins in with the women as its the 'light' thing to do. Meanwhile there labour MPs have trans family, Cooper, Kinnock and Thornbury so are all for it, never mind the pointy stakler and his shouty sidekicks.

@Echobelly " Not saying Labour does either, but do not for a moment be kidded that the Tory's stance is feminist or in remotely good faith towards women. "

I really don't think any of us are kidding ourselves, the thing is, it is always possible that the tory stance in the cold light of day, might be anti feminist ( i'd prefer to say anti woman ) we are aware of that and are being watchful and careful but we know for an absolutely nailed on, 100% guaranteed fact, that Labours stance on women is wholly anti feminist! ( woman ) Wholly.
There have been too many instances, things said, by too many MP's and activists for there to be any doubt left whatsoever.

@QuertyGirl

" I'm more bothered having a functioning state infrastructure than any other issue. "

Could you tell me what that would look like/how it would work, with full self ID and all it's accompanying pandering to every whim and fancy of those taking advantage of the new rules?

@Sausagenbacon
" The problem, for Labour, is that they've burnt their bridges. That great meme, with all the batshit things Labour politicians have said on the subject, is freely available. And can't be rowed back from. "
Between that and the meme of the pic of a miner, dirtied face from having done a hard days graft down the mine, next to a pic of izzard, it's a very stark reminder of whom the labour party was supposed to have been set up to help represent and who they represent now.

In general though, with regard to any reverse ferreting by Starmer, if KJK does run against him at the next GE, then he won't get away with any of that nonsense and/or denials. Whether he turns up to hustings or not, she will and if the tra's turn out and he doesn't speak up against them, it will just blot his copybook even more. We'll get a very good idea of just how large that yellow streak running up his back is.

I'm really fucking sick of being patronised by people who say that you can't trust the tories because they're not feminists. Hold the front page

Just because you're simplistic and hard of thinking, it doesn't mean we are.

I've voted Labour my entire life. This betrayal feels like I've come home from work to find my husband snorting coke off a prostitute's tits on the dining room table. I'm appalled, disappointed and angry. But I'm not naive or stupid.

And please do not also tell me that this issue doesn't matter to most people and pull stats out of your arse. It matters to a lot of people. It matters to pretty much every single person I've ever spoken to about it. And I've spoken to a lot of people.

Take your shitty middle class north London privilege and put it where you got the stats from frankly.

And the reason I've spoken to lots and lots of people on this is because I was out there with Fiat Play for Women, asking people to complete the consultation on the GRR. Ordinary people and they were all horrified at men being in women's changing rooms, in women's prisons and in our toilets. Stonewall law is being rolled back now but I have no faith that will continue under a Labour government. They have leaned nothing since Gordon brown dismissed that woman as a horrible old bigot.

It's a bit hard to do that with 106,000 signatures on the Equality Act petition. That's a lot of sock puppets.

Have to agree with Clymene. Who the heck do they think they are?

Back in 2018, I went to see my female Labour MP. She was trying to fob me off with her feminist credentials. She was visibly uncomfortable when I told her, very gently, that forcing others to participate in a sexual fantasy was abusive, and that we cannot have a serious analysis of rape if we can’t talk about sexual difference.

I wrote to her again twice and each time was fobbed off with cut and paste platitudes and what “Sir Keir Starmer” has said, as if the “Sir” would impress me. If she ever does a hustings, I’ll bring those letters because I want answers and an apology. Some MPs have clearly forgotten that they serve at the pleasure of their constituents. They are not our betters, entitled to put us in our place. It is our civic duty to remind them.

"I'm more bothered having a functioning state infrastructure than any other issue"
Could you tell me what that would look like/how it would work, with full self ID and all it's accompanying pandering to every whim and fancy of those taking advantage of the new rules?

Labour are not proposing any of this, they do not even have a manifesto on this... its just Tory smear, we have sooooo many RL, specific womens rights issues that the Tories have created but instead of us challenging them on these, its "oh look over there, Labour will take away womens rights"

Just look at the Met after 13 years, pissing on recruits inc women, rape victim told to work with their abuser, homophobic, racist, destruction of evidence to be used in rape cases or rape may as well be legalised according to the latest report.

But Labour would be worse, oh really.

Here is an idea, instead off running with the Tory narrative, how about waiting until BOTH parties publish their manifesto's? and then make a judgement?

In the meantime, lets hold the Government to account on some horrific failures.