Labour ‘must fix its trans stance to win the next election’ - party needs to clarify its policies to be closer to the public’s views on the debate

[IwantToRetire]

Labour is trying to position itself as the party of the centre-ground of British politics. It has identified middle-aged, suburban women as a target demographic to win over ahead of the general election.

Labour strategists have studied polling that shows how a gender gap in voting has emerged since 2010, whereby women are on average more likely to vote Labour.

But the polling notes that Labour’s advantage is “specifically among women under 50”, while the Tories lead in women over 50.

It comes as a network of Labour activists and staffers prepares to relaunch itself next month as a think tank that will produce monthly reports on how the party can appeal to its target voters.

The organisation, called Labour Together, aims to come up with a raft of policy recommendations that reposition the party as “socially to the Right and economically to the Left”.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/03/18/labour-must-fix-trans-stance-win-next-election/

It's not really "mental gymnastics" to have a stated reason for your choice of MP, is it?

Labour have noisily advocated for self-ID and that TWAW, and now their supporters seem upset that voters are taking these policies into account, when deciding how to vote.

Underpinning this attitude is a strong foundation of "Women should just do as they are told". #NoThankYou

Well isn’t that the point?

If you can agree there has been a destruction of women’s rights under the conservatives, who at not fully paid up members of this ideology, how bad would it have been under labour? Do you think the labour policies would have had more or less of a destructive effect? Why?

On this issue, Tories are most definitely the best of a bad bunch.

@MarshaBradyo I don't advise women to vote any particular way per se, I think every woman has to look rather holistically at which party represents her best interests depending on all manner of things. I do think we're through the looking glass when a politician seemingly can't answer the simple question of 'what is a woman?' similarly to when asked to define woke should they claim society has become too woke.

Answering a simple and fundamental question honestly is a basic requirement I agree

But I don’t agree on the mental gymnastics part. Many women are being very direct on why they won’t vote for Labour over this. No twisting needed.

Tories are most definitely the best of a bad bunch

Indeed. Like most ex-Labour supporters, I am under no illusions about the Tories. They oppose self-ID at the moment for expediency, but, under Maria Miller, they very nearly succeeded in introducing it. I don't trust them, but my choices at the moment are:

1. Three mainstream parties who say that TWAW and that they will introduce self-ID
2. One party that says it won't.

Many women are being very direct on why they won’t vote for Labour over this. No twisting needed.

@MarshaBradyo This is true and while I might personally find it a difficult circle to square I can see why many women's vote hinges on this. I've never been under the illusion that women can act as a collective for their best interests owing to the fact we all have differing circumstances which shape us for better or worse.

Absolutely!

And there you have the sound common sense which one would expect of Miss Eyelesbarrow. Miss Marple's confidence was never misplaced.

The 'know what a woman' question is actually fundamental. Since I am now seriously having to choose an elected representative and governing party on the actual criteria of 'do you have a grip on reality' as the main qualification.

I mean at this point sod the bloody policies, the question really might as well be 'how intact is your sanity'? These are the crumbs we are down to in trying to choose the least bloody awful options for government.

Spot on @nilsmousehammer

I think Labour is very wedded to TWAW at grass roots level. There's a push at the moment to try and get the party to adopt a definition of transphobia. I don't think there's a definition being consulted on, just a push to have one. Where this goes and what it says would be very telling.
The wake up call that the vote of the 'progressives' is not sufficient to win an election may be being sounded now, but I can't see a position that Labour can take that will bring this particular issue to an acceptable equilibrium.
My deeply cynical self can also see a future where if the disaffected former labour voting middle aged women refuse to return to the fold it will be 'our fault' for any future conservative government.
I personally would want any legislation to bring in self ID firmly ruled out and a promise to guidance that is clear and unequivocal around single sex provision of services.

My deeply cynical self can also see a future where if the disaffected former labour voting middle aged women refuse to return to the fold it will be 'our fault' for any future conservative government.

Oh definitely. It's an extension of the argument already used by pretty much every Labour activist who posts on this board. I think it's because they still haven't grasped that, if women have lost trust in Labour then that is entirely Labour's fault, not ours.

This happens a fair bit, it did with the last GE.

Labour rarely look to own faults but blame the electorate

Absolutely agree and it's not just women the left like to use as a scapegoat - remember Brexit was the fault of old people?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43364331

I am a floating voter in a bellweather constituency. Last time the conservative MP won by 600 votes, increasing his margin from 200 the previous election. I am exactly the sort of voter Labour need to win over, but I do not trust them with women’s rights and so I will not vote for them.

here are some things Labour could do to help rebuild that trust with me

• Keir starmer apologise for saying that “it shouldn’t be said” that only women have a cervix.
• for Labour MPs to all affirm their commitment to a biological definition of “women” and to keeping, and strengthing, the single sex exemptions in the equality act
• for them to invite back Joan Smith into her advisor position and them to invite Karen Ingala Smith and all the other women banned for knowing what a woman is, to rejoin the party
• to publicly back Rosie Duffield and apologise for the craven cowardice up to now
• for Alex Sobel, Lisa Nandy, David Lammy etc to apologise for the awful things they’ve said and say they were wrong or be expelled from the party (like Karen Ingala Smith was)
• for them to publicly acknowledge the harm of medically transitioning children
• for them to work with the TUC to change all the anti woman policies that have infiltrated trade unions and the workplace
• For them to thank Maya Forstarter for her hard won battle to protect the rights of female workers and all workers who understand how babies are made

that would be a start

anything less will not convince me they are remotely sincere

@HermioneWeasley that's a great list!

Am a similar swing voter in a margin area. Chastising me like some on this thread, really isn't the way forward. I don't owe my vote to anybody.

Yeah if any Labour supporters seriously want to win me back then chastisement is really dumb. And guilt tripping or 'What about the Tories' isn't going to cut it either.

I'd also like Jess Philips to apologise for changing the femicide list she has been given the honour of reading out to include a child who didn't belong there before they'd even been buried for political point scoring.

I feel the same.

Various political parties are declaring things which to me are a load of absolute delusional bonkersness.

For example in my personal opinion (1) "Brexit is a brilliant buccaneering big-British-bollocks success" and (2) "Male humans are indistinguishable from female humans with the exception that their special feelings are more important" are just as insane as (3) "The moon is made of green cheese."

I know that some posters will be Very Angry that I unpatriotically disagree with Statement 1, others will be Horrified by my cruelty in disbelieving Statement 2, and there may even be some who are Shocked that I don't accept Statement 3. But parties who tell me any of those statements will find me thoroughly disinclined to lend them my vote, no matter the amount of scolding that their supporters heap upon my head.

@PronounssheRa - this made horrifying reading. It's one thing knowing the Labour Party broadly believe TWAW, but see all those patently unscientific statements collated in one place made very frightening reading. Wow!

Sistanotcista

It's awful isn't it. Of their own free will they have come out with such drivel. Now either these MPs are lying (but just spouting what they have been told too), are desperately lacking in critical thinking skills and in one or two cases just outright misogyny

I don't much care which, because any option means I can't trust them with my vote.

They need to start talking about safeguarding.

Until they do, I don't believe a word of this.

At least 90% of the public have no particular interest in the trans 'debate', including older women. A party's stance on it is not going affect election outcomes. I don't get how everyone involved in all sides fails to realise this.

Where does Labour say their policy is TWAW and they will introduce Self-Id ?

I think Keir Starmer is hoping very much that the Conservatives are stupid enough to try and use Gender Politics as an election issue.

NS failed to realise the problem at all. And Penny M

Fine, they’re gone, but they both seemed blindsided by the issue.

If no one had been impacted so far these posts might be more relevant.

Unfortunately there is a fair wallop of long term evidence that Labour are full on TWAW and will support self ID, Stephen Whittle's comment about what has been promised by Labour to the political TQ+ lobby being one of them, part of the 'cosy backroom cup of tea' deals done. Waiting until they put it on paper and sign it before believing them is probably a bit naive tbh.

Unfortunately too, any political party hoping they can just not talk about this and fight an election leaving it to one side is dreaming. And the Tories have been handed an open goal.