Residential trips

[JustFuckOffPlease]

Name changed for this.
I knew it was only a matter of time.

I teach in a secondary school and we've so far not experienced too many challenges to our single sex provisions despite having increasing numbers of teens (mostly girls) that socially transition for a short period.

I'm running a week's residential course (tied to my subject) for 14 yr olds and one biological male who identifies as a girl has requested that they share with their friends. Girls. I responded before half term to this request and said that they must share with friends of the same biological sex. It went very quiet for weeks, but yesterday afternoon, parents have emailed me, cc'ing the Head to express their dissatisfaction that their child can't share with their female friends.

The accommodation we use are dormitories - minimum of 4 sharing, maximum of 8. I've emailed the hostel (who frequently run school trips) to see what their policy is on these matters so I'll hopefully hear on Monday.

We have quite a strong LGBT staff body and an SLT that will tick all the boxes to be seen to be doing the 'right thing'.

I'm anticipating being told that I need to listen to these parents who are insisting that I let their DC share and to not be discriminated against.

What are my options here? There's 4 staff attending this trip, 2 male 2 female. I organise it and I do NOT agree with biological males sharing a bedroom and changing rooms with biological females, no matter what feelings they have.

Sadly this is likely to be the case. Every other child and adult is responsible for validating this child, regardless of any risk or the rights and wishes of unconsenting others.
Until it is established that girls and women are not on this earth to validate the demands of sad or mentally unwell boys and men, this will continue to happen.

If she bows out she should say why, emphasising safeguarding and the privacy, dignity etc. of the girls. If she hides her reason, then no-one gets the point, including the incredibly stupid parents. Perhaps they would like a biological male of 14 in the showers, the dormitory etc. with their daughter? Ask them.

He's not a DC he's a DS.

Of course OP isn’t going to have to do something they don’t want to or feel comfortable with, but whether the child sleeps with the girls (or more likely, in a separate room on their own) isn’t a decision that the OP is going to need to make in isolation. It has to be escalated.

If this child gets child’s own room then, imo, they are already getting a pretty special deal compared with everyone else.
Go OP, as you say, focus on the risk, culpability and potential harms & legal redress. If you end up gardening because you are personally attacked for raising this, I’ll definitely support you!
Please record as much as you can of how the debate goes, that could help others in your situation later on. Meanwhile, do eg safer schools alliance have anything which can help you?

It would be worth joining the Free Speech Union. They are excellent on the law around these sorts of things and their case workers would be able to advise.

I was with y6 pupils on a school residential this week and wondered exactly your situation.

Nobody is denying that this person exists, OP just disagrees with a claim that identifying with the stereotypes of another gender changes your sex.

As well as the risk assessment which should highlight issues around, for example, the risk of pregnancy, I wonder whether there’s anything in the school’s insurance that would be invalidated by mixed-sex dorms? (Not something I’ve ever looked into, admittedly.)

Thanks everyone. You all make such valid points.

My Head is a good individual but is pursuing every 'badge', award and label going at the moment, so I've no doubt that they've not truly thought this through, but just looked at things on a superficial level in order to be a pioneering school. I know that at least one of their deputies are pro-validating and happy to get the male trans pupil into female changing rooms if they wish - I usually like and work well with this member of staff but nothing will come in the way of me standing my ground on this.

I won't back down.

Ok so even if we assume that the young biological male here is as modest and pure as the driven snow ...
Next year, a young man says he is trans and happily comes to school in a skirt for a month with the sole aim of sharing a room with his girlfriend on the residential. The precedent has already been set - he can share with the bio girls.
The other girls in the room don't feel able to voice any discomfort for fear of being called transphobic; and lo! soon you have a pregnant teenager.

If there exists a solution for distinguishing, in a legally defensible and infallible manner, between the hypothetical #1 and #2 cases, preserving good safeguarding principles, I am sure OP would be all ears.

And the separation of the sexes also protects young men from allegations of wrong-doing. We wouldn't like to see any teen tiff among friends escalating to accusations of inappropriate behaviour, would we?

So, the above, off the top of my head, are a few thoughts on possible ways to approach this. While thinking rather more blunt opinions;)

Worth pointing out, repeatedly, it all sounds so lovely and it's so nice to be nice, but in reality you can only validate male children by invalidating and oppressing (and silencing) female children. And sooner or later this 'inclusion' will involve the exclusion of female children with Autism, disabilities, faiths, cultures, trauma, DV/DA histories or female children with a grip on reality who plain want dignity. It will involve a female child who does not consent being coerced and pressured to validate a male child with her body. As the price of her having been born female.

And sooner or later, a male child will appear that female children really do not consent to. You cannot say yes to some and not to others.

The male child's needs can be accommodated very willingly. But not at the expense of single sex accessible spaces for female children. They are not lesser. They're covered by the Equality Act and human rights too.

It’s parents like his that have helped prolong the fad this long. I bet they’ve never said “no” to him since he was old enough to talk.

I personally think it also depends on the 3 young ladies parents opinion - they may be very uncomfortable with their daughters sharing with a biological male so that means you can refuse on those grounds, taking the heat off you.

I had a different but relatable issue in that the boys parents weren't comfortable with their sons sharing with a very flamboyant out gay lad, if best friend female was fine sharing with him and her parents had suggested it as a solution - we opted for it (twin room). Not ideal but you have to make the best choice with options available.

No. You don't leave safeguarding arrangements to the very children that you are supposed to be safeguarding.

And you certainly don't put the girls in the position of either having to say no, and risk the inevitable social exclusion that would follow, or saying yes (because be kind) when they actually mean no.

Oh and you don't pander to a group of homophobic parents either FFS.

And you don't let well meaning parents open the door for one DC as it sets a precedent for another DC to use on a subsequent trip.

So irritating. My boys are quite innocent anyway but went on a primary school residential. Both asked to put their girl friends down as their room shares and we had to try and explain why the answer was No, from us and the school, in an age-appropriate way.

As pps have said, I don't understand why these basic safeguarding principles are up for debate just because a child says they've changed their gender. They've not claimed to have changed sex nor can they have. Trans children need to understand that every life has challenges.

So many schools are signed up as Stonewall champions. So it's inevitable that girls rights and safeguarding will be downgraded in schools in order to meet Stonewall's demands for the removal of single sex spaces, sports and factual information in schools. Until this toxic group is removed and schools are directed to exercise due diligence and prioritise safeguarding over the demands of narcissistic adults, these situations will continue.

I would say an absolute no to this. I do have a ftm DC and she went back in her box on a school trip. Unless you have full surgery this is a huge risk. I wouldn't want my DC sharing with men even now and they are an adult. Hospitals, loos etc are fraught with worries. No child and that is what they are, has the right to bully others including teachers. When my DC complained about a perceived transphobic teacher I said 'they are trying their best, everyone has been trained and you are threatening their livelihood'. I mix my pronouns because this is a nightmare for everyone. I don't care about names, I care about human rights and decency. If this natal male wants to call himself Fluffybell McDougal fine, you are not there to put up with this agenda. The law is the law. They are minors.

Lots of good stuff here already OP. You might find this thread from last year helpful too. www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4461928-School-trip-policies-on-overnight-accommodation-for-trans-children

In our situation, the school used 'the girls are happy with it' as an excuse to ditch safeguarding. (As parents we were given the chance to veto the arrangement, but it was coercive - clearly if we'd put our foot down and said no all hell would have broken loose.)

As others have already said, children can't choose to opt out of rules which are there for their safety, even if their parents agree to it. And while this child may be perfectly lovely, we don't let any of the other lovely boys in the girls dorm either. And how will the school be able to say 'no' next time when it's a child who is not at all lovely?

You could take the approach that you identify a safeguarding and legal risk, and suggest that the school gets legal advice. There is a specific allowance made in the equality act for single sex spaces where it is a proportionate means to a legitimate end. Girls' safety, privacy and dignity is clearly a legitimate end, so by allowing a male into girls' changing rooms or dorms, the school would be open to a legal challenge of violating the girls rights. Does the school think this is a good idea?

At a really simple level - if a trans girl strips naked to change (after all, they may have been told in their RSE lessons that some girls have a penis, and be expecting everyone else to think that's just fine), and one of the girls is horrified... what just happened? Indecent exposure, or a transphobic hate incident?

I think you just pass this up the line. Ask your Head. How is the school (or rather, you, in reality) expected to deal with this perfectly likely scenario? Or would it be better for everyone just to prevent this situation arising?

Here are a couple more scenarios you could chuck at your Head while you're at it to illustrate the safeguarding and legal risks of allowing mixed sex accommodation on a 'case by case' basis. Letting something to go ahead because 'this child is lovely' is going to cause all kinds of problems down the line. Crucially, no-one has to actually 'misbehave' for really unpleasant and upsetting things to happen. But given the known high levels of sexual harassment and assault in schools, it seems fabulously naive to assume that nothing bad could happen.

Child E, 14 is male and declares a trans identity and, following a change of haircut, name and clothes is allowed to share with girls on a school trip. Two girls agree to share because they like E and want to be inclusive. E has a visible erection in his sleep, having kicked off the duvet in the night. Girl F thinks this means that E is masturbating and complains to the teacher. E wakes up, totally unaware that anything has happened, to find two teachers and two crying girls in the room, and being accused of being a pervert. F calls her parents, who call the police. F's parents sue the school for having violated her rights to privacy and dignity. E's parents make a formal complaint of transphobic bullying.

I, 15 is a male child, who identifies as a girl and is attracted to boys. I changes name, pronouns and dress and is allowed to use the girls facilities. I is generally well liked by the girls, and no-one voices any objection. Subsequently, J, a male child who is already sexually active with girls, and not at all well-liked, announces a trans identity. Some of the girls express misgivings in private to teachers, but nothing concrete, so J is allowed access to girls facilities based on precedent, as there is no firm basis on which to deny this to J. A school trip is planned:

a/ None of the girls are willing to share with J so J is offered a choice of sharing with boys or private accommodation. J's parents make a complaint of discrimination for not providing some girls for J to share with, when that's been done for I.

b/ The school allocates some girls to share with J, without offering an opt out. The girls refuse to go on the trip. Their parents complain that they've been excluded from the trip, and that their right to privacy and dignity has been violated.

c/ The school coerces the girls by saying that the trip can only go ahead if some of them volunteer to share with J. Three of them agree, but refuse to be left alone with J, and give J the cold shoulder during the trip. J's parents make a formal complaint that the school has failed to protect J from transphobic bullying.

d/ As above, three girls agree to share with J. Following the trip, one of them tells a teacher that she woke up and J was standing over her bed staring at her, and some of her underwear is missing. Her parents make a formal complaint. J denies everything, then claims to have got a bit lost going to the toilet in the night. The girl’s parents sue the school for putting their daughter at risk. J’s parents sue the school for discrimination, saying ‘no other girl’ would have been asked the same questions.

e/ After the room allocations are made, two girls approach the teacher to say that J's behaviour in the toilets and changing rooms has been making them uncomfortable. 'It's not that big a deal and we didn't like to say anything because of course J is a girl, but now that we're going to have to share a bedroom...' None of it is very concrete, so the teacher makes the decision not to do anything. J makes sexual remarks to the girls in the bedroom during the trip, and their parents make a formal complaint to the school. J says they were jokes and makes a complaint about transphobic bullying.

f/ I shares a room with girls without incident. A year later, I reverts to his original name, pronouns and stops wearing makeup. The girls are distressed that they were persuaded to share a room with I because they were told by the school that I was a girl. They make a formal complaint to the school for failing to protect their privacy and dignity.

And I'm afraid you can't rely on the hostel to have any sensible guidance in place. The national guidance from the Outdoor Education Advisors Panel suggests 'a shared bedroom with other transgender young people, or with friends where there is trust and understanding'.
oeapng.info/search-results/?download_search=trans+young+people

Amazing how all normal safeguarding just gets thrown in the bin when trans is mentioned. "Let the children decide". How nice. 🙄

'Case by case basis' does not mean each individual trans person, despite Stonewall's claim it does.

It means each situation as a whole, ie letting ANY male in a female only space not letting this one because his mum demands it.

I think you need to take the friend angle out of the discussion and keep it to single sex/mixed sex. The friendship groups adds a sense of injustice to their side, which will just turn into emotional blackmail.

I would reply that one of the great things about a residential is meeting people from other classes and making new friends. Therefore you try to avoid designating rooms by friendship groups. You will be allocating based on sex, but will be mindful of any difficult student combinations, such as a history of bullying.

You then have random girls being surprised by a male roomie or special treatment for this group (which puts pressure on the girls to comply with his wishes). These are not easy points to argue in the way "everyone else has their friends" is.

You can make sure he's in with kind, gentle "ally" boys. I would make an effort to put together a lovely room, to also ward off similar in future.

Also, our school does not announce room allocation until they are there, to avoid parental complaining.