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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Residential trips

236 replies

JustFuckOffPlease · 18/03/2023 11:52

Name changed for this.
I knew it was only a matter of time.

I teach in a secondary school and we've so far not experienced too many challenges to our single sex provisions despite having increasing numbers of teens (mostly girls) that socially transition for a short period.

I'm running a week's residential course (tied to my subject) for 14 yr olds and one biological male who identifies as a girl has requested that they share with their friends. Girls. I responded before half term to this request and said that they must share with friends of the same biological sex. It went very quiet for weeks, but yesterday afternoon, parents have emailed me, cc'ing the Head to express their dissatisfaction that their child can't share with their female friends.

The accommodation we use are dormitories - minimum of 4 sharing, maximum of 8. I've emailed the hostel (who frequently run school trips) to see what their policy is on these matters so I'll hopefully hear on Monday.

We have quite a strong LGBT staff body and an SLT that will tick all the boxes to be seen to be doing the 'right thing'.

I'm anticipating being told that I need to listen to these parents who are insisting that I let their DC share and to not be discriminated against.

What are my options here? There's 4 staff attending this trip, 2 male 2 female. I organise it and I do NOT agree with biological males sharing a bedroom and changing rooms with biological females, no matter what feelings they have.

OP posts:
GrabbyGabby · 18/03/2023 11:58

That is a tough one and the answer depends on how much heat you are willing to take. Personally i would not be responsible for a trip involving teenagers and mixed sex sleeping arrangements. It is not compatible with safeguarding. If this arrangment is what happens then i dont think you have much option but to bow out.

You could bow out, and not state this as your reason.

But any which way, you will take some heat for this.

jeaux90 · 18/03/2023 12:00

Do you have a safeguarding lead at school who you can bring into the conversation as an ally?

MamaMoon16 · 18/03/2023 12:02

I don’t think this is your call. I’d put it to SMT/DSL teams.

RoseslnTheHospital · 18/03/2023 12:09

I doubt opting out is an option and doesn't solve the obvious issue of potentially mixed sex accommodation happening.

I'd just focus on the safeguarding and risk assessment issues, of having a mixed sex room. It puts everyone in a vulnerable situation. Does your insurance for the trip have anything about what's expected?

Is there any way you can get an additional room and let this child have their own room? Might increase the cost of the trip for everyone but possibly not too much?

Abccde · 18/03/2023 12:09

That is really tough.

As a parent of a girl, I would feel really really let down by the school if they put my child in with a male.

I would probably go as far as removing them from the school and commencing legal action (if I could).

I would also try and get the press involved.

Is there any way you can pull out of the trip?

TeenDivided · 18/03/2023 12:13

I would want to be very clear to SLT that you have sex separated dorms for a reason on school trips and that reason doesn't change just because someone is trans/NB.
I wouldn't want to be responsible for welfare with mixed sex dorms.
DD's school was always very clear on trips that kids were under no circumstances to go into opposite sex rooms, even in the day time to grab something.

Motheranddaughter · 18/03/2023 12:15

When I was asked to do this in Guiding I said I was no longer available to take the trip
Appreciate that is different as it is a voluntary role and not your job
For me it was a safeguarding issue
And honestly Guide camp has enough challenges without this

SiobhanSharpe · 18/03/2023 12:15

How would the other girls who would be expected to share with the trans child feel? And their parents? Could you ask them discreetly ? (so that they didn't feel obliged or pressured either way)

TeenDivided · 18/03/2023 12:15

Also presumably you agreed to do the trip assuming usual safeguarding protocols would be in place. if they are going to throw them out of the window you presumably would be perfectly entitled to say no to the trip.

BlessedKali · 18/03/2023 12:17

I would request a proper risk assessment is taken (ultimately a male fully intact sleeping with females - there is a risk of pregnancy). Then it becomes obvious to the school the actual risks involved.

I would then suggest the school seek kegal advice - after risk assessment has been done and risks are acknowleged , are the achool liable if sexual assualt took place? (Mentioning liability always makes the conversation a bit more serious and a bit less rainbows and glitter)

I would also suggest to the school that they seek legal advice on the equality act's single sex provisions, incase they are in breach of them.

Then I would also request that the school inform the parents of the girls who will be sharing with this male. Then let the parents of these girls have their say!

I think just ducking out of this is not an option. You have a responsibility to protect these girls.

Bovril2000 · 18/03/2023 12:17

This boils my blood OP, I would kick up merry hell.

Take this to the safeguarding lead. There is absolutely no way a male should be allowed to share the girls accommodation. I would be tempted to anonymously let some of the parents know? If I thought my daughter would be subjected to this I would be livid. Take to local press is a good idea. Single sex spaces should be exactly that - single sex.

AlisonDonut · 18/03/2023 12:18

How is 'not sleeping in the same room as girls' discrimination?

Nimbostratus100 · 18/03/2023 12:18

Don't do it! This has resulted in underage pregnancy in a trip organised by a friend of mine

Simply refuse, on safeguarding grounds

They go into a male dorm, or an isolated room, or you don't do the trip

End of

WonderingWanda · 18/03/2023 12:18

I am very interested to hear what your slt suggest. I would not lead a trip with mixed sex rooms and would think the best you can offer is a room for the child in question to have their own room.

quantumbutterfly · 18/03/2023 12:18

BlessedKali · 18/03/2023 12:17

I would request a proper risk assessment is taken (ultimately a male fully intact sleeping with females - there is a risk of pregnancy). Then it becomes obvious to the school the actual risks involved.

I would then suggest the school seek kegal advice - after risk assessment has been done and risks are acknowleged , are the achool liable if sexual assualt took place? (Mentioning liability always makes the conversation a bit more serious and a bit less rainbows and glitter)

I would also suggest to the school that they seek legal advice on the equality act's single sex provisions, incase they are in breach of them.

Then I would also request that the school inform the parents of the girls who will be sharing with this male. Then let the parents of these girls have their say!

I think just ducking out of this is not an option. You have a responsibility to protect these girls.

this

BlessedKali · 18/03/2023 12:20

It is also worth asking questions?

''why arent dorms mixed sex on residentials?''

''becuase there is the risk of sexual assualt or consented sex, both carrying the risk of pregnancy''

''is there a risk of this if a fully intact 'transgirl' shares a dorm with females''

''yes''

Harping0n · 18/03/2023 12:21

Not exactly the same topic but maybe this face sheet from safe schools alliance may help.
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/singlesextoiletsfactsheet.pdf
I suspect the equalities act my be helpful

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/03/2023 12:23

I dealt with this in a school. The parent called in the one of the trans extremist groups to threaten the school what would happen if the trans boy couldn't share a dormitory with the boys.
The staff refused to go and the trip was cancelled.

My advice would be to keep the issue as quiet as possible - don't let it become a talking point in the school. This is what Sex Matters state in their guidance for schools:
Sleeping accommodation
A school has single-sex dorms on a school trip. The Equality Act 2010 permits schools to arrange single-sex communal accommodation, for example on school trips or for boarding schools (including linked facilities such as toilets and showers). This is for reasons of privacy. As with toilets and changing
rooms, it is not appropriate to accommodate children of the opposite sex in single-sex communal accommodation (since it would then no longer be single-sex).
Children who identify as trans should not be made to feel unsafe or unwelcome sharing accommodation with children of the same sex as them, but they might also feel more comfortable with a single room.
Any teacher organising a trip away will also have to consider histories of bullying, disability and special needs, behavioural and other vulnerabilities for all children, and the layout of the site in allocating sleeping arrangements. Schools should not breach their policies on single-sex accommodation or risk
assessment about arrangements for sleep-away trips because a child identifies as transgender.

sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Boys-and-Girls-and-the-Equality-Act-May-2021-England-and-Wales.pdf

BlessedKali · 18/03/2023 12:25

I would go down the suggested routes of risk assessment and legal advice before giving the school an ultimatum. It's an opportunity for the school to seriously consider this issue, and it can absolutely be presented as coming from a conscientious and well-meaning place (it is, afterall).Then if nothing changes you can refuse on moral grounds over defined risks

Whatsnewpussyhat · 18/03/2023 12:31

Do not leave it to the girls to decide. If this boy is their friend they probably will say it's fine.

They are children and safeguards should be in place to protect the female pupils. Single sex bedrooms and facilities are a bare minimum.

It is not discriminatory to keep the biological and legal male out of the female single sex facilities.

Would the school allow one girl who says she's a boy to sleep in a dorm with 7 boys?

The male child's 'feelings' are irrelevant.

GrabbyGabby · 18/03/2023 12:32

BlessedKali · 18/03/2023 12:17

I would request a proper risk assessment is taken (ultimately a male fully intact sleeping with females - there is a risk of pregnancy). Then it becomes obvious to the school the actual risks involved.

I would then suggest the school seek kegal advice - after risk assessment has been done and risks are acknowleged , are the achool liable if sexual assualt took place? (Mentioning liability always makes the conversation a bit more serious and a bit less rainbows and glitter)

I would also suggest to the school that they seek legal advice on the equality act's single sex provisions, incase they are in breach of them.

Then I would also request that the school inform the parents of the girls who will be sharing with this male. Then let the parents of these girls have their say!

I think just ducking out of this is not an option. You have a responsibility to protect these girls.

With respect i disagree with the last bit of this. The parents and school leadership hold the responsibility here. If they make decisions contrary to good safeguarding, that is on them, not you.

If you go into battle on this, and it could turn into one, you need to look out for yourself. There are myriad women who have lost their jobs for saying very very uncontroversial things with only the very best of intentions. The mob came for them. And it could come for you, which is something you need to consider when choosing how to handle this.

guinnessguzzler · 18/03/2023 12:33

It is awful that you are being put in this position and I hope you get support from management to resolve it. I'd also suggest seeking support from your union if you don't but that may be counterproductive, which is, frankly, terrifying.

Thelondonone · 18/03/2023 12:44

I am waiting for this to happen to me… if it does I’m going to ask a member of sky to come and them to carry out the risk assessment. I can’t have my name on that paperwork when it’s on the front of the daily mail. We also need to protect the trans child and this makes them vulnerable too.

lifeturnsonadime · 18/03/2023 12:48

Discriminating on the grounds of sex is a lawful reason to exclude the male child.

The law already supports this.

It's absolutely insane that anyone can suggest otherwise.

viques · 18/03/2023 12:49

SiobhanSharpe · 18/03/2023 12:15

How would the other girls who would be expected to share with the trans child feel? And their parents? Could you ask them discreetly ? (so that they didn't feel obliged or pressured either way)

Don’t do this. It is not up to children to monitor safeguarding rules. It is up to responsible adults to ensure that safeguarding guidelines are both secure and unequivocal.