School trip policies on overnight accommodation for trans children

[foodfiend]

Short version:
School's policy appears to be something long the lines that trans girls can share with girls if the girls are OK with it. Dd (14) is proposing sharing a room with trans girl friend and another girl. We have said we're not happy about this. Dd says that's transphobic.

Long time lurker here - would welcome any relevant experience, especially from any secondary teachers. School trip is this spring, planned since Oct - they've now been asked to submit room share preferences - rooms of 3. Dd is friendly with a trans girl - (since before name change ~ 2 years ago). Dd says A told her that the teacher had told A that they could share with whoever they want 'as long as everyone was OK with it'. (I have now checked with the teacher, and this appears to be correct.) Dd and another girl have agreed to share with A.

DH and I both said, hang on, A is male. It is not appropriate for you to be sleeping in mixed sex bedrooms. Dd says A is not male and we are transphobic.

To be clear - the kid seems perfectly nice and I think this scenario would probably be fine. (No idea what the other girl or her parents think.) But a policy of 'yeah, sure, mixed sex sleeping arrangements are fine if everyone agrees to it' sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. And it's unclear whether I'd even know it was happening if I didn't happen to already know that A is trans.

I'm pissed off at being put in this position of having to be the one to point out that this is inappropriate and put a target on my head as 'hateful', or seeming to specifically reject A/A's identity. While Dd professes to be happy/keen on this, it's clear that it would be extremely difficult for a girl in a similar position to say that she wouldn't be happy to share - she'd be terrified of being accused of transphobia. And it seems pretty crummy for A as well to be asked to go round her friends and put them on the spot like this.

It seems like the school is relying on the kids to somehow work it out for them. And that no-one seems to have spotted the obvious risks of setting such a precedent. Will they be equally happy for a trans boy to go in with two boys next time around? Or other male and female students to choose to share mixed bedrooms?

Are any other parents and teachers able to share policies or approaches from their schools?

I agree, you and your daughter have been put in an awful situation. You shouldn't be asked if you are ok with a teenage boy sharing with females.

A great resource is safeschoolsallianceuk.net - have a look through.

Difficult… but safeguarding trumps feelings and a male bodied teen sharing with female teens is a concern. If girls feel they cannot say if they feel uncomfortable because of the worry of being labeled transphobic, that is a problem. Other posters will be able to better advise what to say to the school, but the school needs to take charge with a clear policy that is safe for all.

I'd get a lawyer to write to the school telling them if this is their policy you expect them to provide full financial support to any babies conceived while on school trips.

The safeguarding word is your friend. Regardless of the gender identity of your DDs friend, their body is male and it is not appropriate or safe for male bodies to sleep with female bodies.

Just to add, my teen DS’s best friend is a trans girl and they continue to have sleepovers with other male bodied friends, so no one feels left out in the cold. It would be kinder to find some male friends for this trans teen to share with. Most kids are supportive and accepting.

How many teens would be sharing the room - that's a key question, I think.

I know of this exact circumstance - all great friends and a very similar situation.

They had a great school trip.

Dd had a similar issue on her year 6 residential. The school sent out a message to parents of the girls asking if they (and their daughter) would be happy with the trans child sharing a room.
We said no but it was an easy decision as dd had never been friends with the child as a boy or as a girl…
The child ended up in a room on their own which is sad but I’m glad the school gave parents the choice.
It was an opt in form and if you weren’t happy with room sharing you just didn’t complete the form.
Harder decision for you op as your dd is a friend but I would still say no.

You need to contact the school, arrange a meeting with the head and head of safeguarding and make it completely clear that you think the adults need to be in charge and insist the sleeping arrangements are single-sex.

Don't worry about being "that parent", sometimes parenting is awkward and you don't get thanked at the time.

Even if nothing happens on this trip, it will do sooner or later, and the girl will be the one who suffers.

I had sleepovers with male friends at that age. We lived on the same block, no other girls. They were my best friends and we grew up together. We went camping and on trips and had sleepovers. Nothing inappropriate or dangerous. We were all best friends.

This isnt the school mandating the girls must share with a trans girl and forcing the situation whilst making a lot of girls uncomfortable. This is friends choosing to share a room and everyone is happy. I wouldnt care if the person identified as trans or not. They're great friends, they're not in any sort of romantic relationship and I dont see the issue with them sharing.

If the school ever tried to make the move into forcing this on girls in the future then that's a problem. But I'm not seeing this as a trans issue. Just friends sharing.

On our Paris trip, most of us piled into one room two rooms to chat/watch movies/mess around and we fells asleep wherever we were. So the whole thing was mixed sex. Teachers didn't know but that's what happens.

I'd be asking about changing and showering facilities personally. In a way sleeping is red herring if the pupil is allowed full access to the girls showers (and these aren't individual lockable cubicles)

@servebacon It's a 3 bed room.
Are you able to share a bit of info on how the school handled it? Were parents informed/asked? At what stage? How was the group formed? By the trans child going round her friends and asking them if they were willing to share?

I'm sure they would have a nice time. But I really don't think the school's policy should come down to a child having to go round and ask for validation directly from their friends in this way, or on us all having to make judgements about an individual.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves 3-bed rooms. So I guess the 3 of them would be sharing an ensuite bathroom, with a lockable door.

@lovelyweathertoday Yes, that's my concern - something awful happening in future as a result of this. eg girls feeling obligated to agree to share with someone they really don't feel comfortable with to show their 'allyship', or someone just straightforward exploiting the opportunity.

And I think there are also lots of worrying potential outcomes for a trans girl here too. eg something happens like they sleepwalk, or accidentally expose themselves, or get into the wrong bed in the night on the way back from the loo, and then accusations of harassment/assault/transphobic bullying start to fly.

@Itsalmostanaccessory I do think a sleepover at someone's house is very different to a school trip.

You're right OP. The school should not be putting the children into a position where they are asked if they'r be OK sharing with a boy who self identifies as a girl. It's putting girls into the position of support humans - just there to validate others.
Either all the room sharing is done on a mixed sex basis or none.
You need to be that parent I'm afraid as so schools have been captured by the self interested adult organisations and are abandoning basic safeguarding.

Suggestions:

1. Are rooms allocated on a mixed sex basis or not?
2. Why are girls being put into a position where they're likely to feel unable to say no?
3. Have they done any risk assessments for their new mixed sex sleeping policy?

The NSPCC guidance on mixed sex bedroom sharing for siblings states:
While it's not illegal for them to share, it's recommended that children over the age of 10 should have their own bedrooms – even if they're siblings or step-siblings.
And that's about families.

Its not about this person.

Its about the fact that this message is not a healthy one. They must say they are ok to share because it's transphobic. What if the next kid isn't a friend. How do you say no to one when you said yes to another and the teachers have you down as someone who doesn't mind.

So what if the kids agree. They are kidd. Kids would do lots of silly, dangerous or risky things if allowed to do so. That's why adults step in and dont put them in the position in the first place

Even if every child kicked off and said they were fine the point of being able to say they are fine is that it won't happen. They won't he tested that way v
Because the adults will protect them right?

Contact safe schools alliance op

This is a massive failure if safeguarding.. the insurance might not even be valid if they do this.

@foodfiend

they are all friends anyway and supported her thru her transition and coming out at school. Parents know the teen group well - it's a non-issue really.

You cant rely on them all getting om and being friends though.

Statistically when sexual assults happen it's someone they know. Someone they trust. Friends , family, people they have known their whole lives etc.

Risk actually goes up not down .

Seriously? The school is dumping its safeguarding responsibility on 3 14 year olds?

What does their safeguarding policy say about mixed sex sharing on school trips?

As a PP has said, it’s not about this person, it’s not personal. However lovely they are, they are male. Tbh I’m aghast that a school could be this bloody casual about safeguarding

Any other legal duties they’re planning to off load onto the pupils? Or is it just this one

I mean ffs!!

[quote ServeBacon]**@foodfiend

they are all friends anyway and supported her thru her transition and coming out at school. Parents know the teen group well - it's a non-issue really.[/quote]
I haven't said I know the teen group. I've met the child a couple of times, pre transition. I've never met the other girl, have no idea what she thinks, or her parents, or even if they know A is trans. Why would you make a statement like that?

A seems nice. But that doesn't seem like a good basis for developing policy. You don't write safeguarding policies based on the nice people. Or on the assumption that people who seem nice always behave in a nice way.

I hate this insidious push for each and every organisation to “make up their own rules” - it’s harder for us to fight back that way isn’t it - instead of fighting one government decision we have to fight in each individual school.

I'm afraid you need to speak to the school. Don't discuss with your DD any more and don't tell her you're talking to the school - the first issue is the policies, not her feelings.

The school need to know you're not onboard with mixed sex sleeping. At all. Mixed sex friendships are not a problem, but they don't need to be sleeping together. I agree you need a meeting with the head and head of safeguarding together, unfortunately. It's not about getting pregnant, although that's not impossible, it's about the dignity of every child. And like you said above, eliminating the risk of any difficult to prove accusations - by either sex.

Are there other safeguarding policies the school leaves up to the judgement of 14 year old girls, or so they have rules which they enforce? If they fancy sharing with another male child, is that ok?

I’d be bloody furious - mixed sex sleeping and bathroom accommodation is wholly inappropriate and the children should not be able to choose to opt in