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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Graham Linehan interview in The Times (17 March 2023)

184 replies

IwantToRetire · 17/03/2023 01:42

From both ends of the trans debate, I am told his interventions are “counterproductive”, “a net bad” and “unhinged”. Some gender-critical women — that is, women who agree with him — believe he craves attention, martyrdom and leadership of a movement whose fight is not even his. One mentions that he was once pro-porn and sex work, which he admits to being before “talking to feminists” changed his mind. Over on the other side of the battle lines, an activist dismisses him as a fringe character full of hot air. None of these people is prepared, however, to go on the record, mostly saying they fear he will retaliate in his customary style.

There is one admirable exception. She is Kathleen Stock, the radical feminist philosopher who resigned from the University of Sussex in 2021 after a campaign by “queer, trans and non-binary” students who wanted her fired. “Graham and I have clashed in the past,” she says, “and we probably aren’t each other’s favourite people. But I think it’s fair to say he’s genuinely committed to fighting what he believes is a woman-harming and child-harming ideology (and I agree with him on that); and he talks to some demographics — particularly ordinary blokes, who don’t really care so much about niceties of language and aren’t put off by his sometimes bludgeoning style — that others don’t necessarily reach.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/broke-shunned-and-cancelled-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-and-the-trans-debate-cgv8gqpjk

Sorry no share token

(If you paste the Times link above into archive.ph/ it has been archived)

OP posts:
ditalini · 17/03/2023 19:05

Substack: grahamlinehan.substack.com/

BlessedKali · 17/03/2023 19:10

I think Glinner is a good man who see's what is unjust. Good on him for sticking up for women and children . I imagine the feminists that don't like him are the same ones who don't like KJK.

CremeEggQueen · 17/03/2023 20:03

lifeturnsonadime · 17/03/2023 12:14

I think it's a sad article. Still implies that Glinner should STFU.

On another note, is Father Ted available on any streaming channel now? If not what a loss that is.

Yes, all the Father Ted episodes are streaming on More4.
Don't agree with GL's views but I do still love Father Ted 😀

CremeEggQueen · 17/03/2023 20:14

All4, even. Whatever the channel 4 app is called anyway! 😂😁

FuriousAndFrustrated · 17/03/2023 20:16

CremeEggQueen · 17/03/2023 20:03

Yes, all the Father Ted episodes are streaming on More4.
Don't agree with GL's views but I do still love Father Ted 😀

Which of his views don't you agree with? That medicalising children for life is wrong? That women deserve spaces free of men?

BonfireLady · 17/03/2023 21:37

CremeEggQueen · 17/03/2023 20:03

Yes, all the Father Ted episodes are streaming on More4.
Don't agree with GL's views but I do still love Father Ted 😀

The Glinner Update was my final "taboo" on researching gender identity issues. I didn't like how angry he sounded on the Twitter quotes I'd seen, so I had no plans to read his
blogs.

The first step outside my comfort zone was reading the Daily Mail... and discovering that their coverage of gender identity concerns made a lot of sense (IMO) and displayed a journalistic integrity that I never expected.

On this basis, I finally took a look at Glinner.. The weekly roundup is so well researched and written. I still don't like the angry Tweets, but then I never expect my own views to fully and completely align with someone else's - wouldn't it be a boring world of they did? The work that he and his team is doing is incredible. I'm a convert and a supporter of the journalistic research, especially the focus on women and children's safety (and particularly that of adolescent girls and their vulnerability to medical interventions).

HermioneKipper · 17/03/2023 22:18

CremeEggQueen · 17/03/2023 20:03

Yes, all the Father Ted episodes are streaming on More4.
Don't agree with GL's views but I do still love Father Ted 😀

What specifically don’t you agree with?

that women shouldn’t have safe spaces and be able to compete in sports away from men?

TheBiologyStupid · 17/03/2023 22:21

GlorianaCervixia · 17/03/2023 06:49

Excellent article. It was very good of Kathleen Stock to provide a quote and I think she was astute about his appeal, particularly to blokes who are new to all this and aren't put off by the lack of performative kindness.

What's happened to Graham - his career, his family - as a result of his support for women and children is shocking. I can't think of a better example of the cruelty of TRAs and their determination to completely annihilate anyone who opposes them.

Very nicely said. I must do some digging at the weekend

TheBiologyStupid · 17/03/2023 22:33

GettingMarriedAgain · 17/03/2023 10:22

@IcakethereforeIam I can't see the comments (thank you for the share token) are they allowing any and, if so, what's the consensus?

I’d say about 95% of the comments are on Graham’s side

Good to know, but not surprising. Thanks.

TheBiologyStupid · 17/03/2023 22:40

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 17/03/2023 11:49

I hadn’t realised he did count Arthur Strong too. I don’t love the way he interacts here, but I do love his writing and think he is a strongly principled man

Looks like he only did the TV version, not the original R4 series.

eurochick · 18/03/2023 04:53

I thought the article was an odd mix. Some of it was positive about Glinner and some of it was quite sneering.

It is awful how Glinner has been cancelled. His comedy writing is brilliant. Meanwhile David Walliams who properly took the piss out of transwomen with his "I'm a lady" sketches gets away Scott free.

zaramysaviour · 18/03/2023 06:51

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/03/2023 13:12

Black Books is on All4 as well. Never watched that or the IT Crowd. Will it generate royalties for @Glinner if I do? I could watch Father Ted on an endless loop. I'm not keen on musicals but would probably have made an exception for that one.

I am envious that you haven't yet experienced Black Books or The IT Crowd, @Gasp - you have many hilarious hours ahead!

PriOn1 · 18/03/2023 06:59

I have so much respect for Graham and what he says in the interview only increases that respect.

As someone who has a daughter who will no longer talk to me about my terfery, mainly because I was so angry at one point that I spoke what I believe to be the truth in terms that were probably too harsh for her to hear, I have every sympathy for anyone who is considered to be stylistically “wrong”. I was hugely admiring of JK Rowling because she was so temperate for so long in the face of unbearable abuse, but even she has become, at the very least, flippant in her tone sometimes.

I would actually go out of my way to come to the UK to see a Father Ted musical. I am currently watching Father Ted again on a streaming platform outside the UK and hoping that Graham is being paid and that it isn’t all going to Hat Trick.

He’s a thoroughly decent man, standing by his principles. I hope that when this pernicious ideology is finally driven out, that the arts can begin to recover. Right now, the industry seems cowed, which is profoundly affecting the quality of the material being published. The idea that The Speech in the IT crowd is no longer funny is eye rollingly ludicrous. The joke is all on Matt Berry’s character and is sympathetic towards April: I guess the fact that it highlights the possibility that men’s behaviour doesn’t change on transition is offensive to all the angry men who claim to be women, who continue to behave like the abusive men they are.

Thank you Graham, if you’re reading.

tanksgoggle · 18/03/2023 07:16

Bloody love the IT Crowd and Father Ted!

Slothtoes · 18/03/2023 08:23

David Walliams is a massively creepy misogynist though so he fits rights in and does the total opposite of challenge the status quo so (unbelievably) he’s seen as absolutely fine. Nothing to see there.

Musomama1 · 18/03/2023 09:11

eurochick · 18/03/2023 04:53

I thought the article was an odd mix. Some of it was positive about Glinner and some of it was quite sneering.

It is awful how Glinner has been cancelled. His comedy writing is brilliant. Meanwhile David Walliams who properly took the piss out of transwomen with his "I'm a lady" sketches gets away Scott free.

Completely.

I thought the journey was a bit sneery too. GL is fixated on this issue and his approach is heavy handed. But this topic is massive, it's v understandable to be fixated.

Glad they mentioned those bullying t@ats on Cookd and Bombd. So many aspiring comedy writers there. It would be their wet dream to have had GKs comedy career or to write a joke as funny as he can.

Abhannmor · 18/03/2023 09:37

IwantToRetire · 17/03/2023 18:19

When I posted this late last night, I had only really skim read the article as it is quite long.

But was puzzled by some of it, like was the writer trying to be too "balanced", or ... so have found other comments about it interesting.

I mainly posted because without diminishing what many others have lost, what Glinner has lost is more than live changing and mostly in the public eye.

“I thought this would be over in a few months and someone would step in. I really did think as soon as people heard what’s been happening to children, all my friends, satirists, comedians, progressives, people who marched against the Iraq war, lesbians, gay men, they’d all come rushing to my aid.

“And no one turned up. Just no one turned up. All I got was dirty looks, people ghosting me. I joke that I used to know no one from real life, only people from the media. Now I know no one in the media and I’m friends with social workers and doctors and the Tavistock whistleblowers.”

And also picking up some of the implied attitudes of the writer of this article, I wonder if it isn't only because so many have accepted (stayed quiet about) the trans takeover, particularly in the media, but whether not just other men, but people cant accept a man taking up women's issues. That somehow the Stonewalling has been so effective that many people now think it is only older white women who care. And again as the writer implies, why would you (particularly a man) give up a job in the media for women('s rights).

And another element, which I hope I can write without upsetting anybody, is that much of the media especially BBC / Fleet Street is still very much white english public school boy. So that Boris Johnson can make really vile comments and everyone goes oh dear, he's such a naughty boy but we still like him. And what some of what has happened is about the english sense of superiority, ie some of the media elite think maybe its a bit uppity for someone from Ireland to have opinions they are meant to take notice of. Fine to make jokes, some a bit near the line, but presume to talk politics. Unacceptable.

Not quite the same, but when Mick Lynch started getting a lot of interviews, he became an internet sensation (for a while), not just because of his politics, but I honestly think some people couldn't believe that someone who spoke like him could be someone to be listened to.

I wonder if anyone else think that part of it is this.

Because I just cant believe how he has been treated, and that everyone just sort of shruged, including those in the media who are doing it.

And of course he doesn't give up publicly.

Others, and I dont for one moment criticise them for doing it, just decide that for the time being enough is enough.

Hadn't thought of that angle - oddly enough. An Irish man going off script seen as a dangerous loose cannon. He went to a Catholic school of course - gasp!

Someone posted ' Mick Lynch for PM' below a Guardian article. To which someone replied :

Nobody called Mick Lynch will ever be PM. Naturally , lots of people said why not? He can't be worse than the Tories etc.

Oh I quite agree she answered - it's just that nobody called Mick Lynch will ever be PM. Well that remains to be seen but I'm inclined to agree with her.

Graham might have a chuckle or a weary sigh about all this nonsense. He is a middle class Dubliner who has lived in England since the Mr Blobby era. Doesn't particularly identify as Irish , it's just what he is.

Mixedberrygenderfluidmuffin · 18/03/2023 10:15

MishyJDI · 17/03/2023 14:10

I think the problematic "I said I'm from Iran" episode in the IT Crowd is super funny. Today, not acceptable. The same as how trans were portrayed in Ace Ventura.

The thing is though, to admit that it was a joke of the age, and not one of today. Look at how some of the Monty Python jokes have aged badly. What is not good is not admitting that, such as John Cleese going feral about how today you just get cancelled.

Nah John. It just aint funny any more. Try a different angle. Certainly not GMB news!

Anyway as I mentioned. Trick is to make comedy relevant to today's world - which is a lot more educated around using simple minority stereotypes. Thank goodness!

Nah.
This whole nonsense that you shouldn’t mock fat middle aged men in bad wigs and dresses with delusions they’re attractive young women, because it’s not ‘kind’, won’t last.
Because they are innately hilarious.

Once we’ve got rid of all the legal nonsense that they are in any way actually women, and ensured they have no access to women’s spaces, we can all just relax and laugh at them again.

Resister · 18/03/2023 10:17

I don't think it's fair to say that Stock and Glinner have argued in the past @RoyalCorgi . To be accurate, Stock took it upon herself to publicly denounce Glinner when he was at his lowest- he was off twitter and it had become public that his marriage had failed. It was quite clear that he was utterly devastated by her betrayal. Iirc she was annoyed about how he done about Grace Lavery.
She is now very mild in her criticism. It would have been a million more time helpful if she had said that what she said now, then , but she didn't and it was very divisive.

ReadersD1gest · 18/03/2023 10:29

This whole nonsense that you shouldn’t mock fat middle aged men in bad wigs and dresses with delusions they’re attractive young women, because it’s not ‘kind’, won’t last.
Because they are innately hilarious.

Once we’ve got rid of all the legal nonsense that they are in any way actually women, and ensured they have no access to women’s spaces, we can all just relax and laugh at them again.

Please God those times get here soon. Can't be soon enough.

NecessaryScene · 18/03/2023 10:29

This whole nonsense that you shouldn’t mock fat middle aged men in bad wigs and dresses with delusions they’re attractive young women, because it’s not ‘kind’, won’t last.

Not that that IT Crowd episode did that at all - entirely the opposite, in fact. It was 100% "transwomen are women", and the humour was based on that premise - the character being totally female and played by a woman, and Douglas was the butt of the joke with his hang-up about some imperceptible fact about her past.

I'm quite sure Glinner wouldn't write that today, but that's because he now realises how harmful it is to pretend that transwomen are women, as was being done there, and to make out that the "woman who used to be a man" is a real thing.

It is indeed based on an outdated concept: transwomen being women. We now understand how very not true this is.

Florissant · 18/03/2023 10:31

I've now lost a degree of respect for Stock. At the very least, she should have apologise to Glinner.

Poor show, Stock. Poor show.

Bellaisoneluckywoman · 18/03/2023 12:45

I was delighted to see Glinner interviewed in a mainstream paper, but felt as if the journalist was either semi-captured or had been told by the editors to 'be careful' not to sound too GC.

The man has done an enormous amount to stand up for women and girls. And bloody sanity/reality, frankly. Yes - he's pretty uncompromising in the way he expresses himself, but I find that glorious and refreshing; he refuses to be cowed by the language bullies. Plus - any movement needs a range of voices and approaches to maximise its reach/depth. Bit like the green movement benefitting from having measured scientists, the national treasure that is David Attenborough with a spiky XR chaser.

I for one am hugely grateful for all that Glinner does.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/03/2023 13:05

I haven't seen Black Books, so that will be next on our "winding down with a comedy episode before bed" list after finishing Father Ted.

Turnipworkharder · 18/03/2023 14:05

Graham is a man of integrity.

Others would have crumbled at the first hurdle.

Thank you Graham for standing with Women and children.

his crowd funder needs a bit of work. Every little helps.