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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Graham Linehan interview in The Times (17 March 2023)

184 replies

IwantToRetire · 17/03/2023 01:42

From both ends of the trans debate, I am told his interventions are “counterproductive”, “a net bad” and “unhinged”. Some gender-critical women — that is, women who agree with him — believe he craves attention, martyrdom and leadership of a movement whose fight is not even his. One mentions that he was once pro-porn and sex work, which he admits to being before “talking to feminists” changed his mind. Over on the other side of the battle lines, an activist dismisses him as a fringe character full of hot air. None of these people is prepared, however, to go on the record, mostly saying they fear he will retaliate in his customary style.

There is one admirable exception. She is Kathleen Stock, the radical feminist philosopher who resigned from the University of Sussex in 2021 after a campaign by “queer, trans and non-binary” students who wanted her fired. “Graham and I have clashed in the past,” she says, “and we probably aren’t each other’s favourite people. But I think it’s fair to say he’s genuinely committed to fighting what he believes is a woman-harming and child-harming ideology (and I agree with him on that); and he talks to some demographics — particularly ordinary blokes, who don’t really care so much about niceties of language and aren’t put off by his sometimes bludgeoning style — that others don’t necessarily reach.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/broke-shunned-and-cancelled-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-and-the-trans-debate-cgv8gqpjk

Sorry no share token

(If you paste the Times link above into archive.ph/ it has been archived)

OP posts:
Pudmyboy · 17/03/2023 11:59

He is brilliant, and on the right side of history, along with James Dreyfus. I was so disappointed in Matt Berry denouncing the genius episode 'speech', it is the best of the series in my mind. Even though Glinner pointed out that Matt's character loses out on a potentially perfect relationship because of the character's inability to accept April 'used to be a man', it was still deemed transphobic, when to me it highlighted the prejudice April's character faces.

ditalini · 17/03/2023 11:59

Glinner is used by TRAs as an example of What Will Happen To You if you don't toe the line to the rest of the entertainment industry and the vast majority have heeded the lesson. It's been unbelievably peurile and vicious.

And no, I don't think we should always aim for "respectful debate" when the definition of "respectful" will always mean what TRAs say it means - it's impossible to be respectful in debate when it means STFU.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/03/2023 12:07

Reading Twitter under Elon Musk's ownership, though, it does seem like there are a lot of people, many men, now openingly taking the piss out of gender ideology without repercussions

I honestly think it's sometimes the best way to fight the cultural dominance of this ideology.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/03/2023 12:14

I think it's a sad article. Still implies that Glinner should STFU.

On another note, is Father Ted available on any streaming channel now? If not what a loss that is.

Righthandcider · 17/03/2023 12:18

StephanieSuperpowers · 17/03/2023 09:54

I personally think that how he expresses himself is fine - I would not have his courage and humour. When people accuse him of being vicious, I personally see someone with an eye for the ridiculous getting to the empty heart of this nonsense. It's just that it's so exposing, they can't bear it.

Yes, this. I saw a tweet of his taking the piss out of a pic of Sam Smith in a stringy bikini thing, and thought, 'Hmm, that's a bit unnecessary.' But then I realised that's literally what satirists, comedians, political cartoonists etc have always done – expose the absurd, egotistical, delusional puffery that the rest of us are too 'kind' to point at. Otherwise stupid sodding madness takes over society like fecking knotweed.

And I'm another who's glad of Graham's voice. That foul interview with Sarah Smith on Newsnight really wound me up, esp. hearing her tell him 'Women are quite capable of speaking for themselves, thank you very much.' Well, Sarah, for one thing you don't speak for all women. For another, he's entitled to give a shit about something that affects the women he loves and that's being largely perpetrated by men. And thirdly, most of the world doesn't fecking listen to women anyway, do they?

(Two 'feckings' in there dedicated to Father Ted.)

anyolddinosaur · 17/03/2023 12:30

Not a great fan of Father Ted personally but the way Graham has been treated is terrible. A reminder that if you google his name and crowdfunder he could do with more veg.

BloodyHellKen · 17/03/2023 12:35

Slothtoes · 17/03/2023 07:07

Graham Linehan is plainly right. He’s got more moral fibre and integrity in his toenail clippings than those dolts in the media who still inexplicably believe he’s cancelled. No he’s bloody not cancelled. They are on the sexist, homophobic, wildly misogynistic authoritarian wrong side of history.

Andrew Billen’s his mealy mouthed attempt to interview Linehan as a good for clicks while condemning him (for what real transgression exactly?) on faint praise is merely showing his own journalistic efforts towards misogynistic and authoritarian appeasement. The shame is Billen’s. Linehan has done nothing wrong in speaking up in support of women and children.

People love Linehan’s comedy writing work. Those who share his views in gender identity politics also know a feminist ally, supporter of safeguarding and freedoms of speech when they see one. I think Linehan’s real crime has just been to point out than men can be dangerous. He’s said the quiet bits out loud and worse, said it wittily and engagingly too . That’s so uncomfortable for a lot of people who should really be looking hard at themselves to think why they feel that way.

His speaking out makes the sheep at the top who are only there for the financial bottom line, and who believe what some out of touch privileged teenager tells them is the real world (because it’s on their social media feed); fear for their audience figures. When neither those big cheeses nor their interns can read a room.

it reminds me of Chris Morris and Cake with Linehan’s words as the Cake. Unfortunately though for Linehan, its worse for him than just being embarrassing and showing up personal gullibility and the mercenary professional scrabble to get ahead.

Linehan works in a fiercely back stabby and ultra competitive writing and producing world- like academia, like the arts and theatre- where the rationale to pick off one big beast like him leaves more room for the established figures who want more and for the up and comers growing desperate for their big break to take attention and get work. So of course they’re all going to gun for him to keep him out. Even though the paying public would want to watch him.

👏I agree @Slothtoes

Graham Linehan has my admiration. Not only is he a comedy genius but he isn't afraid to stand up to TRA bullies and misogynists. He stands with women and children.

He also makes all the other men in comedy and I'm looking at you The Last Leg, James Acaster et al who suck up to the TRAS look even more misogynistic and lacking in moral fibre than they all ready do. It's frustrating when someone you thought would be sensible about women's rights and child protection puts themselves and their career first because they are scared of rocking the boat.

FOJN · 17/03/2023 12:41

On another note, is Father Ted available on any streaming channel now? If not what a loss that is.

Hat Trick still cashing in on Father Ted with clips from the series on their YouTube channel but they've hidden the full episodes. What cowardly, unprincipled wankers.

RoyalCorgi · 17/03/2023 12:43

Rather than the audience, I expect the difficulty for Father Ted: The Musical is that young, musical theatre actors are the most pro-trans and super-woke demographic out there!

This makes sense. It lines up with those publishers who wouldn't publish the Hannah Barnes or Helen Joyce books because their younger staff refused to work on them. And while there's always another publisher, I suppose it is different with actors. (Though how hypocritical do you have to be to say "I'll work on Father Ted, but only if Graham Linehan isn't involved?" He wrote the damn thing, so if you want to take a principled stand, then you shouldn't have anything to do with it regardless of whether his name is on it or not.)

StephanieSuperpowers · 17/03/2023 12:44

Yeah. I must say, there are a lot of comedians I just don't find funny anymore because of this. Actually, most. It's strange, many of them position themselves as brave tellers of truth to power but nothing could be further from the truth.

CrossPurposes · 17/03/2023 12:51

Father Ted and The IT Crowd are on All4 though I think a certain episode has been memory holed. www.justwatch.com/uk

Graham Linehan interview in The Times (17 March 2023)
Graham Linehan interview in The Times (17 March 2023)
Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/03/2023 12:59

Yes @BloodyHellKen you can’t tell me that Adam Hills doesn't know what a woman is! one of my biggest disappointments though is Dara O Briain who makes a huge deal out of science & evidence and is absolutely silent on this issue

Spidergloves · 17/03/2023 13:00

I'm sure Father Ted has been on Netflix before, but isn't there now. The IT Crowd is though.

Abhannmor · 17/03/2023 13:05

Glinner is far and away the best comedy writer of his generation. No one comes remotely close.

You have to go back to Galton and Simpson. Or Spike Milligan. There is a child's wonder in his humour I think. Children love Dougal because he still knows something other adults have forgotten : grown ups aren't as smart as they think they are.

I think Graham is genuinely baffled by this whole thing. He travelled around Ireland campaigning for Repeal of the ban on abortion. Then many of the people he supported turned on him. He could have chalked it down to experience in 2017 and saved his career.

But there is that insistent voice in his head saying : 'It's a bit mad isn't it Ted?'.

Scout2016 · 17/03/2023 13:12

Thanks to the PP for the gardening reminder. 8 days and quite a way to go.

I didn't realise so few people pay for the substack mail outs.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/03/2023 13:12

Black Books is on All4 as well. Never watched that or the IT Crowd. Will it generate royalties for @Glinner if I do? I could watch Father Ted on an endless loop. I'm not keen on musicals but would probably have made an exception for that one.

Slothtoes · 17/03/2023 13:21

OK I reread it and still found it very poor, reads as if written by a journalist who wants to dine out on having met the big bogeyman guy and having got the full low down on his presumed shameful degraded time out in the cold media wilderness.

Actually Glinner comes out of this with 100% sterling integrity. Billen looks awful lurching around to find something that will stick, maybe about obsession or mental illness of some kind..

FOJN · 17/03/2023 13:27

Actually Glinner comes out of this with 100% sterling integrity. Billen looks awful lurching around to find something that will stick, maybe about obsession or mental illness of some kind..

The comments about buying coffee and a pastry were in particularly poor taste too.

Being gas lit by the state, it's institutions and bullied by your own industry would be enough to make anyone's mental health suffer.

There are days when I don't look at news to avoid this issue because I can scarcely believe the world we're living in and I have not been subjected to anything like the abuse GL has endured.

SavBlancTonight · 17/03/2023 13:30

I feels sorry for him and respect that he genuinely believes in this fight but I follow him on Twitter and I quite often find myself recoiling at the things he says. his attacks on Sam Smith were so inappropriate. And he loves to name call women, even those who are on the same side as him.

I think he's taken so much flack and had his whole life turned around that he's doubled down and that he goes too far.

But I'd fight every day for his right to be heard and for his talent as a writer to be irrelevant to how I think about his campaigning.

Slothtoes · 17/03/2023 13:30

Yes agree with you completely.

Slothtoes · 17/03/2023 13:31

^my agreement was to FOJN

Baaaaaa · 17/03/2023 13:46

Thank you Graham.

Aside from being harmful to womens rights and childrens health, this ideology is authoritarian.

Some people are just strong secular liberals and less prone to Asch conformity.

I think Graham "got it" immediately and feels a moral obligation.

I couldn't admire him more.

MavisMcMinty · 17/03/2023 13:57

I feel ashamed because I never got “involved” with the trans debate until I found MN a few months ago. I never denigrated Linehan (or Rowling) but neither did I defend them when I couldn't understand what other people were getting so upset about. I dutifully unfollowed them both on Twitter, even though between them they have given me hours, days, weeks of enjoyment. I do feel very bad about this, very weak, far too bothered about other people’s opinions.

Slothtoes · 17/03/2023 14:02

Dont sweat it! Welcome to the Dark Side Mavis Grin

MavisMcMinty · 17/03/2023 14:05

Dont sweat it! Welcome to the Dark Side Mavis

I said to my OH when he raised his eyebrows at some of the interviews and podcasts I was listening to:

”I hear I’m a TERF now, Father.”

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