Should IVF be available to lesbians?

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And single women? Or should assisted conception only be for infertile women in heterosexual relationships?

[lemons44]

@Eyerollcentral because as I explained in my first post my husband had a hydrocele operation as a child ON THE NHS, and it is as a direct result of the doctors doing this operation in a certain way that his sperm can't get out of the tubes and we can only ever have IVF. What I was going to say to that poster if they had children was what would her stance be in that situation if an operation on HER child by the NHS has caused them infertility.

[ÉireannachÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ]

@Myaiminlife

Why do think it is morally objectionable? Do you think any assistance to conceive is morally wrong or just IVF?

If you have a Google of the ethical debate surrounding ivf, any reason/view that is presented against it, I hold. Thats the short and lazy answer to your first question.

And as for the second question; yes, I do think assistance in reproduction of any sort is morally wrong.

[Bird0123]

The world health organisation and the UN seem to disagree with your thoughts.
There's a choice to be made when resources and medical science allow, everyone has a right (in the UK) to make that choice regardless of sexuality.

[Eyerollcentral]

@Bird0123

The world health organisation and the UN seem to disagree with your thoughts.
There's a choice to be made when resources and medical science allow, everyone has a right (in the UK) to make that choice regardless of sexuality.

You don’t have a right to have the state fund it though. People can pay for any private treatment they want.

[Bird0123]

Actually the NHS is quite clear that lesbian couples do have rights to access these treatments. Lesbians pay into the NHS and can access it in a fair and equitable way just like heterosexual women.

[Soontobe60]

For those who say yes it should be available but not on the NHS, what you’re actually saying is that only wealthier people should be able to have it.
Should we go 1 step further and say that maternity services should be available for all pregnant women, but not for free?

[ÉireannachÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ]

@Bird0123

The world health organisation and the UN seem to disagree with your thoughts.
There's a choice to be made when resources and medical science allow, everyone has a right (in the UK) to make that choice regardless of sexuality.

And??! I am well aware that my views are in the minority. The fertility business is big money, perhaps that's why it exists.

[BordoisAgain]

@JJ456

Exactly. Thanks @BordoisAgain
What’s the difference between me and my female partner and her male partner? Neither can produce viable sperm.

So either you have no problem and we are equal or you do have a problem and it’s because we’re gay.

Also, why do same sex couples have to ‘prove infertility’? Of course we are infertile, we’re missing one half of the equipment just like a heterosexual couple where one side has a fertility issue.

Not sure why I'm being tagged in this.

FWIW I know how shit infertility is. Both my children were conceived via IVF due to male factor issues. We just put away money each month til we could afford it privately as it's not something I feel the NHS should be funding.

The NHS don't fund a lot of things that would arguably improve the well-being of lots of people, unfortunately that's just how it is at the moment.

[BordoisAgain]

@Soontobe60

For those who say yes it should be available but not on the NHS, what you’re actually saying is that only wealthier people should be able to have it.
Should we go 1 step further and say that maternity services should be available for all pregnant women, but not for free?

Just like only wealthier people can access a lot of things.

If everyone had access to the same things via the NHS then it would cease to function at all.

[Kendodd]

@Soontobe60

For those who say yes it should be available but not on the NHS, what you’re actually saying is that only wealthier people should be able to have it.
Should we go 1 step further and say that maternity services should be available for all pregnant women, but not for free?

Difference is, during maternity care, not only is the women getting healthcare, the unborn baby is as well. The woman may well have chosen to be pregnant but the baby most certainly didn't choose to be born.

[ninjasnap]

@Viviennemary

No. It shouldn't be funded by the NHS. In fact not sure any fertility treatment should be prioritised in the NHS because of the state it is in now.

What is prioritised by the NHS right now though?

My husband and I are both net contributors, but not eligible for NHS IVF as we have only been officially "trying" to conceive (due to making sure we can afford it) for a year. I turn 40 in 11 months. What should we do?

Bearing in mind my childhood/teen/adult anorexia/BPD was funded by first my late dad (himself an NHS professional paying for his own cancer treatment) then my husband. It's a flawed, rotten system, where it will cost my gay brother to privately rent my (very willing) womb, and whereby I may never be a mother, yet..... (fill in your own blanks!)

[Eyerollcentral]

@Bird0123

Actually the NHS is quite clear that lesbian couples do have rights to access these treatments. Lesbians pay into the NHS and can access it in a fair and equitable way just like heterosexual women.

If the woman intending to carry the baby has fertility problems she can. If she doesn’t, she can’t.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

@RethinkingLife

A single woman or a lesbian by themselves never will

Reproductive justice would recognise the existence of a couple (notionally lesbian) where the requisite gametes might be available (depending on the medical/surgical interventions).

Tam, M.W. Queering reproductive access: reproductive justice in assisted reproductive technologies. Reprod Health 18, 164 (2021). doi.org/10.1186/s12978-021-01214-8

O'Donovan L, Williams NJ, Wilkinson S. Ethical and policy issues raised by uterus transplants. Br Med Bull. 2019 Sep 19;131(1):19-28. doi: 10.1093/bmb/ldz022. PMID: 31504233; PMCID: PMC6821981.

What about the requisite uterus?

That's where it gets even trickier.

[SemperIdem]

If it is available, which it is, - then it should be available to all regardless of sexual orientation or marital status.

Surrogacy on the other hand, is something I strongly disagree with.

[puffyisgood]

I'm not crazy about the NHS paying for IVF but the case for/cost of giving it to a pair of lesbians is to me no different at all to giving it to a straight couple (or single woman) who need(s) donor sperm.

[EndlessTea]

@Shelefttheweb

They aren’t “left over”; all viable eggs are used to produce embryos and the best embryos implanted.

What you are thinking of is where women undergoing IVF privately are coerced into giving up some of their harvested eggs in exchange for reduced cost of treatment. It may well be the case that they end up having to live with being unsuccessful but knowing that another couple have their biological child. If they are unsuccessful they would also have to go through all the risk and harm of ovarian stimulation again in order to get more eggs, and the cost of this as opposed to using the eggs they had to give up may offset the saving they made in doing so.

Heartbreaking

[EndlessTea]

@TooBigForMyBoots

A lesbian can produce sperm the same way an infertile heterosexual man can. Via donor.

I think I’ve entered the twilight zone.

[Eyerollcentral]

@Soontobe60

For those who say yes it should be available but not on the NHS, what you’re actually saying is that only wealthier people should be able to have it.
Should we go 1 step further and say that maternity services should be available for all pregnant women, but not for free?

A friend of mine had fertility treatment through her workplace health insurance scheme which she pays 11 quid a month in to.
‘Should we go 1 step further and say that maternity services should be available for all pregnant women, but not for free?’ how is this similar to fertility treatment? Maternity services are there to deal with the ante natal health of the mother and baby. It’s a health service for women who are pregnant.

[ninjasnap]

I'd much rather the NHS/tax payer/myself fund lesbian/gay IVF then gastric bands/lifestyle inflicted diabetes/ smoking cessation on the NHS.

So many things can be avoided by healthy lifestyle choices. Infertility/sexual orientation cannot.

[EndlessTea]

@MolkosTeenageAngst

But some lesbians can be infertile as well. If a lesbian couple or a single women who are infertile and can find a consenting sperm donor to supply the sperm why shouldn’t they be entitled to the same IVF treatment a heterosexual couple would be entitled to?

Infertile women don’t require ‘sperm donors’ to treat their infertility.

[twelly]

I think funded NHS treatment should only be available for infertility or where there are genic/medical issues. Scare resources need to be allocated - which is why sadly the NHS cannot fund many IVF attempts for each couple

[Eyerollcentral]

@ninjasnap

What is prioritised by the NHS right now though?

My husband and I are both net contributors, but not eligible for NHS IVF as we have only been officially "trying" to conceive (due to making sure we can afford it) for a year. I turn 40 in 11 months. What should we do?

Bearing in mind my childhood/teen/adult anorexia/BPD was funded by first my late dad (himself an NHS professional paying for his own cancer treatment) then my husband. It's a flawed, rotten system, where it will cost my gay brother to privately rent my (very willing) womb, and whereby I may never be a mother, yet..... (fill in your own blanks!)

Pay privately for treatment if you want to have a baby that’s what you should do.
‘It's a flawed, rotten system, where it will cost my gay brother to privately rent my (very willing) womb, and whereby I may never be a mother, yet..... (fill in your own blanks!)’ sorry you completely lost me here.

[Bird0123]

The NHS does not prevent access to fertility treatments on the basis of sexuality. Your local health board is likely to have the treatment and referal criteria on their website if you want to check the specifics in your area. You can also find general information on Stonewall's website.

[SemperIdem]

@ninjasnap

I'd much rather the NHS/tax payer/myself fund lesbian/gay IVF then gastric bands/lifestyle inflicted diabetes/ smoking cessation on the NHS.

So many things can be avoided by healthy lifestyle choices. Infertility/sexual orientation cannot.

The “undeserving” treatments on the NHS are often caused by/needed because of eating disorders aka mental health conditions - which are in fact, illnesses.

[lemons44]

*That does not extend to the right to have treatment and donor sperm and eggs to assist you in conceiving a child.

You don’t have a right to have the state fund it though. *

@Eyerollcentral but what ever your options are on ethical and moral grounds, under my CCG, people in female same sex couples DO have this medical right to treatment (not a baby, treatment). If they pay into the NHS, why should they not access the funding agreed by the CCG for their own benefit? After all, people with children use the NHS for their children's health, because this is their medical right. Your moral opinions, do not change the fact that people (dependent on their CCG funding priorities) do, in fact, have the MEDICAL RIGHT to have the NHS pay for this treatment, if they meet the criteria and want it. Regardless of if you think it is right or not, it is literally happening.