Should IVF be available to lesbians?

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And single women? Or should assisted conception only be for infertile women in heterosexual relationships?

[smellyflowers]

@Kendodd

On a tangent, having a child is not a right and should not be viewed as a right.

I agree. As a stepparent I faced the very real possibility the NHS wouldn't help me conceive. It's not a right.

[ittakes2]

IVF and assisted conception are not always the same issue.
IVF is creating eggs, mixing with sperm and growing and implanting embryos.
Assisted conception can be this but it can also just be as simple as artificial insemination.
I believe you either have assisted conception for everyone regardless of sexuality - or no one.
I had private IVF because I was in my mid 30s and the NHS waitlist was so long I would have likely been too old when I got to the top of the list.
During the process I did make me think about NHS IVF - is it right the tax payer pays for infertile people to have children which is not a medical need? My head says no but my heart says yes as I know the pain of infertility and the mental health aspect of desperately wanting a child.
The only other issue is I have wondered if people can not afford IVF how they afford to raise a baby as babies are expensive!

[smellyflowers]

@EndlessTea

Where does the man come from?

Not sure, do they do the same thing they do with eggs going through IVF and ask people to donate leftovers?

[smellyflowers]

@ittakes2

IVF and assisted conception are not always the same issue.
IVF is creating eggs, mixing with sperm and growing and implanting embryos.
Assisted conception can be this but it can also just be as simple as artificial insemination.
I believe you either have assisted conception for everyone regardless of sexuality - or no one.
I had private IVF because I was in my mid 30s and the NHS waitlist was so long I would have likely been too old when I got to the top of the list.
During the process I did make me think about NHS IVF - is it right the tax payer pays for infertile people to have children which is not a medical need? My head says no but my heart says yes as I know the pain of infertility and the mental health aspect of desperately wanting a child.
The only other issue is I have wondered if people can not afford IVF how they afford to raise a baby as babies are expensive!

The government help you financially to raise your child

[MolkosTeenageAngst]

@EndlessTea

Where does the sperm come from?

A donor.

[Eyerollcentral]

@lemons44

@Eyerollcentral no I know more than anybody that having a child is a privilege and not a right, thank you. I think you'll find that anybody suffering with infertility knows this more than you could ever imagine.

There needs to be a bit more compassion in this thread.

With all due respect someone can have fertility issues and still not believe that the nhs should be funding fertility treatment. And you don’t know the situation of any one posting.

[Misty999]

No IVF is for infertile people, fertile lesbians and single women should not be entitled to IVF on the NHS.

[EndlessTea]

@smellyflowers

Not sure, do they do the same thing they do with eggs going through IVF and ask people to donate leftovers?

That winded me.

[NewNovember]

@BluebellBlueballs

NHS funded only when there is recognised infertility

So they would have to self fund IUI first

This

[Eyerollcentral]

@TooBigForMyBoots

Of course having a child is not a right.

Its not about a child as a right. It's about lesbians and single women having the same rights as heterosexual women in a relationship, to assisted conception.

You aren’t comparing like with like though. A heterosexual couple even with fertility issues will still usually have the components necessarily to theoretically conceive. A single woman or a lesbian by themselves never will. That’s what I find disingenuous about the comparison. However as I have said I don’t think the NHS should be funding any fertility treatment for anyone.

[Viviennemary]

No. It shouldn't be funded by the NHS. In fact not sure any fertility treatment should be prioritised in the NHS because of the state it is in now.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

Donor sperm is used by heterosexual couples too EyeRoll.

[EndlessTea]

@TooBigForMyBoots

Donor sperm is used by heterosexual couples too EyeRoll.

But a lesbian can’t produce sperm because she is a woman, not because she is infertile.

[lemons44]

@Eyerollcentral with all due respect, I was talking to another poster and not you so I don't know why you keep talking to me? Was you supposed to tag somebody else? I also don't know what you are talking about as I have never once said what my own opinion is on whether or not NHS should fund IVF or claimed to know the situation of anyone posting.

[Eyerollcentral]

@lemons44

@Eyerollcentral with all due respect, I was talking to another poster and not you so I don't know why you keep talking to me? Was you supposed to tag somebody else? I also don't know what you are talking about as I have never once said what my own opinion is on whether or not NHS should fund IVF or claimed to know the situation of anyone posting.

I just wanted to know why you thought it was necessary to know whether the poster had children and why that was relevant to what she had said. It’s a public forum, anyone can reply to any posts. You did say people should be more compassionate, that’s why I said you don’t know anyone’s situation - which could be exactly the same as yours.

[Shelefttheweb]

@smellyflowers

Not sure, do they do the same thing they do with eggs going through IVF and ask people to donate leftovers?

They aren’t “left over”; all viable eggs are used to produce embryos and the best embryos implanted.

What you are thinking of is where women undergoing IVF privately are coerced into giving up some of their harvested eggs in exchange for reduced cost of treatment. It may well be the case that they end up having to live with being unsuccessful but knowing that another couple have their biological child. If they are unsuccessful they would also have to go through all the risk and harm of ovarian stimulation again in order to get more eggs, and the cost of this as opposed to using the eggs they had to give up may offset the saving they made in doing so.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

@TinselAngel

God this is getting tedious. That's not what I said. I said that if you argue for anybody having a "right" to children, (eg by saying lesbians have a right to IVF because it's the only way they can conceive and therefore is necessary for "equality") then you need to think through the consequences of your argument. In particular, to be consistent you'd have to argue gay men also have a right to children which will involve increased use of surrogates. You then have to wonder where the surrogates will come from to fulfil that right and of the detrimental effect this would be likely to have on women.

As I said, it's not about the right to a child. Most women who need help conceiving sadly know that treatment is no guarantee. It's about lesbians and single women having the same rights as heterosexual women in relationships.

Assisted conception where the pregnant woman will be the mother is a world away from surrogacy.

[RethinkingLife]

A single woman or a lesbian by themselves never will

Reproductive justice would recognise the existence of a couple (notionally lesbian) where the requisite gametes might be available (depending on the medical/surgical interventions).

Tam, M.W. Queering reproductive access: reproductive justice in assisted reproductive technologies. Reprod Health 18, 164 (2021). doi.org/10.1186/s12978-021-01214-8

O'Donovan L, Williams NJ, Wilkinson S. Ethical and policy issues raised by uterus transplants. Br Med Bull. 2019 Sep 19;131(1):19-28. doi: 10.1093/bmb/ldz022. PMID: 31504233; PMCID: PMC6821981.

[Bird0123]

Of course they should. Everyone has a human right to choose to make a family.

[Shelefttheweb]

@Bird0123

Of course they should. Everyone has a human right to choose to make a family.

Having a child is not a right.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

@EndlessTea

But a lesbian can’t produce sperm because she is a woman, not because she is infertile.

A lesbian can produce sperm the same way an infertile heterosexual man can. Via donor.

[Eyerollcentral]

@RethinkingLife

A single woman or a lesbian by themselves never will

Reproductive justice would recognise the existence of a couple (notionally lesbian) where the requisite gametes might be available (depending on the medical/surgical interventions).

Tam, M.W. Queering reproductive access: reproductive justice in assisted reproductive technologies. Reprod Health 18, 164 (2021). doi.org/10.1186/s12978-021-01214-8

O'Donovan L, Williams NJ, Wilkinson S. Ethical and policy issues raised by uterus transplants. Br Med Bull. 2019 Sep 19;131(1):19-28. doi: 10.1093/bmb/ldz022. PMID: 31504233; PMCID: PMC6821981.

‘Reproductive justice’ is a nonsensical phrase and movement. No gay or lesbian couple is the victim of injustice because they are unable to conceive a child between them without intervention.

[MolkosTeenageAngst]

@EndlessTea

But a lesbian can’t produce sperm because she is a woman, not because she is infertile.

But some lesbians can be infertile as well. If a lesbian couple or a single women who are infertile and can find a consenting sperm donor to supply the sperm why shouldn’t they be entitled to the same IVF treatment a heterosexual couple would be entitled to?

[Twoshoesnewshoes]

IVF on NHS for anyone with fertility issues.
otherwise no, not in the state we’re in currently.
I also IMO believe no anonymous donors, egg or sperm.

[Eyerollcentral]

@Bird0123

Of course they should. Everyone has a human right to choose to make a family.

You have the right to a family life. That does not extend to the right to have treatment and donor sperm and eggs to assist you in conceiving a child. As a woman I can choose on my own to start a family but without the input of a man it’s an empty choice. I can’t demand my right to have someone reproduce with me.