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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Am I Reading This Right?... Rosie Duffield Throwing KJK Under The Bus?!

261 replies

EpicChaos · 10/03/2023 02:23

From what i can tell, Rosie has quote tweeted a lloyd russell tweet, that is having a go at Kellie J.
Rosie it seems, has thrown Kellie under the bus by claiming, ' look i'm not like that other woman, so listen to me '! That's how i'm reading it anyway.
If so, that's the last time i hop in when it's rosie getting all the flak, she can do one!
I notice Bindle is there too!

OP posts:
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13
CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 10/03/2023 09:01

EndlessTea · 10/03/2023 09:00

👀

Look familiar anyone? The undermining of parental responsibility- and the propagation of this idea that children mostly need protection from their own parents? 👀

”We are your family now”

It’s very Jeffrey Marsh, yes.

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 09:01

Who said anything about hating men? This is about recognising who abuse comes from. Male relatives. You sound like a TRA.

EndlessTea · 10/03/2023 09:02

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 09:01

Who said anything about hating men? This is about recognising who abuse comes from. Male relatives. You sound like a TRA.

Rotherham, Telford, Oxford…. Relatives?

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 09:03

Um...exactly!!

RaininginDarling · 10/03/2023 09:03

EndlessTea · 10/03/2023 08:30

Together they’ll create a safeguarding plan to protect that child, including protecting her from activity which could lead to pregnancy, contraception if that fails and abortion if necessary.

Seems you think a sexually active twelve year old is ‘nothing to see here’.

Agree @EndlessTea what we have here is a conflict between realists - who don't live in some theoretical utopia where young girls are never sexually exploited - and those who call themselves progressives and find any form of safeguarding repressive.

I feel sorry for today's parents as they seem endlessly characterised a danger to their child's needs and well-being by the people who know better.

bellinisurge · 10/03/2023 09:03

@drwitch good to hear. But there were supposed to be loads of safeguards at the Tavistock. It is not unreasonable for people to be sceptical.
I don't think KJk expressed herself in a way I agree with but she is right that we need a conversation.
For the avoidance of doubt, if a girl under 16 wants access to abortion services, there is no question that this should be given promptly, sensitively and confidentially. Tbe safeguarding follow up should be similarly

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 09:03

I don't get the reference

AlisonDonut · 10/03/2023 09:03

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 09:01

Who said anything about hating men? This is about recognising who abuse comes from. Male relatives. You sound like a TRA.

Every accusation is a confession.

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 09:04

Worried about your kid talking to the doctor alone, are you?

AlisonDonut · 10/03/2023 09:05

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 09:04

Worried about your kid talking to the doctor alone, are you?

It helps if you quote who you are resonding to otherwise you look completely mad. Oh hang on...

Helleofabore · 10/03/2023 09:10

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 08:54

Well that's what she said...

When? And what were the words?

Because I interpret these tweets with a focus on final part of the statement :

Tweets from 9/3/3023 19.27.

The issue of consent is that one leak leads to many. When thinking about how we’ve got here, a place where schools are able to socially transition kids behind their parents back, it’s essential to rigorously examine all of the mechanisms that may have assisted.

This does not mean I endorse any kind of forced birth. Ever. But I cannot ignore that child traffickers have been able to exploit laws that enable vulnerable girls to be abused.I cannot ignore that it’s not only at risk under sixteen year olds that are given the pill. Without parents knowledge

There may well be a more appropriate way of protecting vulnerable girls without creating deceit in all families.

This idea of consent is dangerous and open to all sorts of abuses.

We should be careful to vigilantly monitor unintended consequences.

To be clear, I am referring to this:

There may well be a more appropriate way of protecting vulnerable girls without creating deceit in all families.

This idea of consent is dangerous and open to all sorts of abuses.

We should be careful to vigilantly monitor unintended consequences.

This does not indicate that she is advocating the extreme view you are saying she is.

What part of “This does not mean I endorse any kind of forced birth. Ever.” indicates that she is not about centring the child’s needs but supporting them within a family structure where it is safe?

She is clear in saying she is against ‘creating deceit within families’. She has not qualified that to the extreme you seem to have interpreted.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 10/03/2023 09:13

RaininginDarling · 10/03/2023 09:03

Agree @EndlessTea what we have here is a conflict between realists - who don't live in some theoretical utopia where young girls are never sexually exploited - and those who call themselves progressives and find any form of safeguarding repressive.

I feel sorry for today's parents as they seem endlessly characterised a danger to their child's needs and well-being by the people who know better.

Absolutely.

imagine having a abortion, medical or surgical, as a tween or young teen without your mum, nanna, female guardian, auntie, big sister or similar to hold your hand, not just on the day but in the weeks, months and even years after.

Abortion should be available to all women who want to access it, but no matter how easy it is to access, it doesn’t make it an easier process to go through, physically and mentally it can take a sizeable toll on your well-being and it’s not something most adult women would want to go through completely on her tod, let alone a raped kid.

Helleofabore · 10/03/2023 09:16

Just going to paste the tweets from KJK clarifying her stance.

Tweets from 9/3/3023 19.27.

The issue of consent is that one leak leads to many. When thinking about how we’ve got here, a place where schools are able to socially transition kids behind their parents back, it’s essential to rigorously examine all of the mechanisms that may have assisted.”

This does not mean I endorse any kind of forced birth. Ever. But I cannot ignore that child traffickers have been able to exploit laws that enable vulnerable girls to be abused.I cannot ignore that it’s not only at risk under sixteen year olds that are given the pill. Without parents knowledge

There may well be a more appropriate way of protecting vulnerable girls without creating deceit in all families.”

”This idea of consent is dangerous and open to all sorts of abuses.”

”We should be careful to vigilantly monitor unintended consequences.”

RaininginDarling · 10/03/2023 09:22

Back in the 70s/80s, when I was being abused as a child, adults in positions of power: police, teachers, relatives didn't want to know. Literally, shut me down. The strength it took to even try to get help when I blamed myself for the terrible things that had happened to me and the defeat of being left unheard and minimised will always stay with me.

I now appreciate that many adults don't want to engage because it is too awful to think about so they change the subject or engage in whataboutery.

It strikes me this current debate has very similar vibes. The need to pretend children as young as 10 or 12 are fully capable of making informed decisions on their own about their sex and fertility. Strong 'I don't want to think about the alternative' vibes when actually the mature stance might be led by curiosity and concern.

Those who are twisting this to say its anti-abortion or anti birth control are royally missing the point. But I suspect that's just a bad faith interpretation because engaging with reality brings you close to having to look into the darkest corners of human nature.

I have found this particularly true, ironically, of people whose job it is to safeguard children.

Just an observation.

Helleofabore · 10/03/2023 09:26

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 08:54

Well that's what she said...

So I ask again.

You seem to have argued that she said that abusive parents should have authority over their child.

I would like to see you post her saying what you have accused her of please.

SapphosRock · 10/03/2023 09:27

It must be a lovely bubble to live in when you assume all 12 year old girls have a kindly mum / auntie / big sister to hold their hand while they have an abortion and who will always have the child's best interests at heart.

Helleofabore · 10/03/2023 09:30

RaininginDarling · 10/03/2023 09:22

Back in the 70s/80s, when I was being abused as a child, adults in positions of power: police, teachers, relatives didn't want to know. Literally, shut me down. The strength it took to even try to get help when I blamed myself for the terrible things that had happened to me and the defeat of being left unheard and minimised will always stay with me.

I now appreciate that many adults don't want to engage because it is too awful to think about so they change the subject or engage in whataboutery.

It strikes me this current debate has very similar vibes. The need to pretend children as young as 10 or 12 are fully capable of making informed decisions on their own about their sex and fertility. Strong 'I don't want to think about the alternative' vibes when actually the mature stance might be led by curiosity and concern.

Those who are twisting this to say its anti-abortion or anti birth control are royally missing the point. But I suspect that's just a bad faith interpretation because engaging with reality brings you close to having to look into the darkest corners of human nature.

I have found this particularly true, ironically, of people whose job it is to safeguard children.

Just an observation.

Flowers Raining.

Thank you for your post.

RufustheSpeculatingreindeer · 10/03/2023 09:30

EndlessTea · 10/03/2023 09:00

👀

Look familiar anyone? The undermining of parental responsibility- and the propagation of this idea that children mostly need protection from their own parents? 👀

”We are your family now”

I was just thinking that

well not quite that but that its obviously not ‘most’ parents

RufustheSpeculatingreindeer · 10/03/2023 09:32

Elizaazile · 10/03/2023 09:03

I don't get the reference

Which reference?

EndlessTea · 10/03/2023 09:34

SapphosRock · 10/03/2023 09:27

It must be a lovely bubble to live in when you assume all 12 year old girls have a kindly mum / auntie / big sister to hold their hand while they have an abortion and who will always have the child's best interests at heart.

The vast majority of little girls do. The vast majority of children grow up in loving, caring protective families, and of those who are abused, their parents would be devastated by knowledge of it.

It is essential that social services look for help within the family first for the sake of the child’s continuity of care and welfare, rather than make the assumption that all families are bad/complicit. This distrust of parents and families being stirred up is troubling. Especially since this distrust seems to be stirred up by the same people who oppose child safeguarding…. 👀

EndlessTea · 10/03/2023 09:41

It’s so moving to read your post @RaininginDarling .

It’s so important that even the vaguest concerns are raised.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 10/03/2023 09:41

SapphosRock · 10/03/2023 09:27

It must be a lovely bubble to live in when you assume all 12 year old girls have a kindly mum / auntie / big sister to hold their hand while they have an abortion and who will always have the child's best interests at heart.

I definitely do not assume that all do and I think it’s absolutely fucking tragic for those who do not and they should be properly supported by social services, not left in the ‘care’ of their rapist.

Thankfully, the vast majority of children do have at least one supportive, responsible female adult in their lives even if she isn’t a blood relative.

SapphosRock · 10/03/2023 09:48

The vast majority of little girls do. The vast majority of children grow up in loving, caring protective families, and of those who are abused, their parents would be devastated by knowledge of it.

This is so naive.

If a 12 year old girl falls pregnant something has gone very wrong in her loving, caring, protective family.

She needs urgent intervention from social services and a safe adult who can she disclose the abuse to. The perpetrator may well be her dad, brother, uncle or grandfather.

EndlessTea · 10/03/2023 09:49

SapphosRock · 10/03/2023 09:48

The vast majority of little girls do. The vast majority of children grow up in loving, caring protective families, and of those who are abused, their parents would be devastated by knowledge of it.

This is so naive.

If a 12 year old girl falls pregnant something has gone very wrong in her loving, caring, protective family.

She needs urgent intervention from social services and a safe adult who can she disclose the abuse to. The perpetrator may well be her dad, brother, uncle or grandfather.

You think that most mothers are aware and complicit when their daughter is being abused by the dad, brother, uncle or grandfather?

dimorphism · 10/03/2023 09:52

EndlessTea · 10/03/2023 08:00

I think protecting underage girls from statutory rape and sexual exploitation is a feminist issue.

Who does it serve to give a twelve year old girl contraception without informing the parents or social services?

Oh yeah - it serves the blokes who want to fuck underage girls without detection or consequence. I can understand why LRM would be on their side, but feminists? Hmmm…

This - 100 times this.

Absolutely parents should be involved.

Absolutely if they're not then some men will seek to exploit this situation so they can groom and rape 12 year olds.

Absolutely I am pro-choice but a 12 year old girl is a CHILD. They cannot make choices about other aspects of their life (driving, drinking), why can they make adult decisions about this? Who does it benefit. They should have to have a conversation with a trusted adult who genuinely has their best interests at heart before they go on the pill. Not a rushed off their feet medic, or anyone who could be invested in statutory child rape. This is safeguarding.

The pill has side effects, it's not consequence free and putting a CHILD who hasn't even completed puberty on a drug like that so a man can have sex with her isn't that progressive, really.

Parents, in general, are more likely to have their child's best interests at heart than pretty much anyone else.

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