“We want gas and air to be available for women and….”

[AnyFucker]

You guessed it… “birthing people”

Morning telly, right there 🤢

Well…at least they said women

I’m happy to compromise with women AND birthing people. I’m not happy to completely eradicate the word woman

Well on the plus side, if they make it about men it's more likely that a safe solution for actual women will be found. We all know how it works.

If they want to waste printer ink and airtime with the "and" stuff, go ahead, I don't care. Keep the word woman in and women's health language ascribed to women. Add whatever bullshit makes your interns happy if you can afford to waste it.

Only women give birth. I do not accept any other language or attachment to that word.

But they said women. If you don't believe there's anyone else then just ignore the bit after the and?

“..and birthing people” makes it sound like they want it for all the people helping with the birth, the partner, the midwives, obstetricians. Gas and air for EVERYONE! Like Oprah.

That's very much the problem isn't it. The midwives (male and female, but it's worse for the female ones) are getting the gas and air whether they want it or not.

No, I agree only women give birth, but I’ve gotten to the point now where I can accept additional language as long as woman is first in the sentence.

I don't care if some women want to be known as birthing people, as long as woman who want to be known as woman are included.

You're happy to be lied to by a news programme? It's sad we've given up so much...

It won't work that way because everyone really knows who's who.

NMC and RCM guidance is to add to language, rather than takeaway which means the word women has to stay. It’s not ideal but at least we will not be in a position where certain words which are integral to maternity services ( and life in general) like women, mothers and breastfeeding etc are eradicated.

RCM

How many transmen are actually giving birth each year anyway? Apparently in 2019 it was 22. It doesn't seem like the order of scale that necessitates all these protracted and obfuscatory caveats unless that number has shifted hugely. And of that number, how many are delivering vaginally and using gas and air for pain relief? At this point, with such diminishing numbers, it might be as useful to refer to 'Women and also John, Barry and Fred' on national segments on this topic.

It’s not just tm. You gotta remember the super special NB

If we accept 'women and' we're accepting that there are people other than women who give birth. I don't think it's a coincidence that this is being adopted as a 'compromise'. We all know where it can lead when we think 'Oh let it go, it doesn't matter'. I think we need to hold the line.

There are other linguistic compromises I might accept - they're long and clunky but that's ok by me, let people see how long winded and tongue-tying it is.

Yeah what's wrong with this?

I might be being naive here. But it's all about getting gas and air to everyone who is giving birth even if they don't see themselves as a woman

Yes this issue does need addressing doesn't it?

Maybe it's easy for me to say as I didn't get on with gas and air myself. The midwife tried really hard to make me keep doing it but it made me feel sick. It was a distraction, at best, and did nothing to dampen the pain.

Birthing people to me always reads as the people supporting the woman in labour i.e. the midwives, nurses and doctors.

Seeing as the whole problem is that these NHS staff are being overexposed to gas and air due to poor ventilation, it seems a bit ludicrous to use confusing language like this.

Birthing people = women

So: gas and air need to be available for women.

I don’t understand how broadcasters can use these nonsensical phrases while keeping a straight face.

Do midwives on a delivery suite say that they need to pop into room 4 to check on the “birthing person” in there?

No issues with that. They used the word woman and were inclusive of trans and non binary people.

For individuals it is entirely appropriate to use language that they are comfortable with.

When talking about policy and law it is vital to use accurate and meaningful language. The additive approach has the effect, over time, of casting doubt over whether the word woman does, in fact, include all adult human females and only females. Additive language could have one two effects: (1) we will no longer think that the word woman is sufficient to cover all women (adult human females) which will mean that women who are trans and women with another identity might be excluded from provision that is intended for them if additive language is not used, and (2) the additive language will be used to suggest that men (adult human males) could use/benefit from the provision, because it is not exclusively for women. The implications of that are quite serious as it could put the benefit of the single sex exemption and sex specific provision in doubt, because these benefits under the Equality Act are only available if the benefit is for one sex or the other, not a mixed sex group.

The point is that additive language will have implications over time as to the definition of woman and man. This will, in time, have implications for the meaning of those words when used in law and policy that will have a negative effect on sex based rights. We need to stick with accurate language.

I stand with AnyFucker on this one.

Well said AF. Only women give birth. Facts and science matter.

Once the NHS can provide safe maternity care that doesn't maim and kill women and babies, then they can pontificate about the demands of others. Until then, they have one job and that's to provide safe maternity care for women and babies.

Agreed. Perfectly explained, I might add.
All birthing people are necessarily women. Special identities are irrelevant to the capacity to give birth.

This...

Don't mind the and birthing people but for some autistics they might get winder why the midwife and obstetricians where using it!.