I don't agree with the ad-hominem comments on Sam Smith, India Willoughby et al.

[TERFCat]

Basically as the title says.

I think gender ideology can be robustly criticized without the need for comments on any individual's appearance or dress sense.

If you go to Twitter, a lot of the GC accounts I follow are currently laughing at Sam Smith for his latest magazine cover. I don't like SS, but I do think that they is free to dress how they want. SS shouldn't be body shamed either as they has a perfectly normal body.

Same goes for India. Don't like them, but I don't think their clothes etc should be mocked.

"They is free" ?

Well I is free to say that they is has a terrible sense of style and they is looks stupid.

That is all regardless of whatever gender he thinks he has or doesn't have. He's a celebrity and is putting himself out there to be roundly mocked along with the rest of them.

Fair game I say.

The clothing and gender issues are very different.

Has SS said that he's hurt by the comments on his outfits or is he being a typical celeb and picking outfits that will get his picture in the papers and on SM like Met Gala attendees do ?

I said "they is free" as I'm not sure how pronouns work on this board these days. It's been a while since I've posted as I had two warnings (for mis-gendering) and didn't want to get banned.

How are we allowed to refer to Sam Smith?

If your friend meets you in the pub wearing this:

s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/z3BzmmohVaEhowPtBG.AJg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MA--/s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2023-02/7746d7d0-abc2-11ed-bf7d-5612a033019b

Do you

A) Compliment them on their Avant Garde dress sense?

B) Pretend not to know them and leg it for the rear exit?

C) Roll on the floor gasping with hysterical laughter?

B

I think everyone just uses ‘Sam’ a lot

Bit rich moaning about comments on clothing when you choose to go out dresses like an over cooked rotisseri chicken.

Also available:

content.assets.pressassociation.io/2023/02/20180110/951e878d-0258-4619-87c3-4c3d852e8eea.jpg?w=1280

Me is free to comment how me likes about thems or is it theses?

That grammar scrambled my brain. If you must say 'they' surely you use 'are' not 'is'. Anyway I think that person is an attention seeking fool so fair game for comments on clothing choices.

D) Shout “bundle” and spend the next few minutes bouncing across the pub floor (until the inevitable puncture).

D) stick a pin in it, tell them to stop being a twat and get the drinks in.

D) Shout “bundle” and spend the next few minutes bouncing across the pub floor (until the inevitable puncture).

<nods sagely>

This is the correct approach.

Sam can wear what Sam wants. I can think it's fucking bike. I do agree that comments about body shape are almost always unwarranted and cruel. However Sam is happy to erase women's achievements so... I'm less willing to go to the barricades.

😂😂😂(gasps for breath) 😂😂😂

From now on I'm going to identify as Sam Smith and declare my fat rolls to actually be inflatable pants.

Logically a singular “they” should be followed by “is”. It’s no more difficult to remember than it is to remember to use the wrong pronoun and it’s so jarring that it’s worth doing.

I agree @TERFCat

Individuals have the right to wear what they wish without judgment or personal comments being made that denigrate them. The only limit to this is if the outfit is designed to expose genitalia.

For me this is true whatever their sex, age or physical attributes.

I fear a society that seeks to dictate what individuals wear, using shaming or even modesty laws to achieve this.

As for India the only comments that I've seen are about Indias photo shopping escapades which is fair enough as all women face the same criticism about their use of photo shop you'd think India would be happy being treated just like women are

i saw india on the telly the other day, i did not recognise them at all

i do wonder with these filters and photo shopping some people use whether they would ever be found if they went missing…or on the lam

( using ‘they’ to refer to multiple people…not india)

Does India get as many comments as say Khloe Kardashian who is a big fan of heavy image and video filters and has people worldwide pointing it out each time ?

Does anyone outside the UK know India ? I'm not so sure that she's particularly well known unless you're a Big Brother fan.

For Sam Smith the clothes, the image, the presentation is all part of the act. It’s all about getting people talking about Sam
Smith - and making lots of money.

Similarly, IW is making a career out of this. How IW a looks and presents IW is all part of the product.

It’s less like commenting on Brenda from HR’s unflattering haircut than it is criticising walkers for launching a new line of vomit crisps.

If you read anything at all in lifestyle, fashion, royalties, celebrities etc. you will see that women's looks are criticised much, much more than the looks of men. Women are held to much higher standards. Quantitatively that is the more serious problem when it comes to lookism, and probably one reason for the reported high rates of feeling hopeless and sad among teen girls.

Just by the by, I saw a TikTok by a professional photographer who said that people get to the stage quite quickly where they believe that their be-filtered fizzog is actually what they look like.

They aren’t individuals in this context. They’re carefully designed products.

People can dress however they like within decency standards. But once you’ve decided to make your image and style and such like the product you’re selling… criticism of your brand - and any changes in it - comes with the territory.

No one forced IW to plaster IW all
over social media. IW chooses to do it for financial gain. Just as Sam Smith is promoting the Sam Smith brand with all this nonsense.