I don't agree with the ad-hominem comments on Sam Smith, India Willoughby et al.

[TERFCat]

Basically as the title says.

I think gender ideology can be robustly criticized without the need for comments on any individual's appearance or dress sense.

If you go to Twitter, a lot of the GC accounts I follow are currently laughing at Sam Smith for his latest magazine cover. I don't like SS, but I do think that they is free to dress how they want. SS shouldn't be body shamed either as they has a perfectly normal body.

Same goes for India. Don't like them, but I don't think their clothes etc should be mocked.

😂😂😂

The posts here are absolutely brilliant. It's threads like this that pull me back from the brink when I'm about to flounce from MN

Hard agree OP.

Maya F said it: 'People are worthy of respect. Ideas are not'

JKR said it: 'wear what you want...'

I also don't like making personal comments on people's appearances, OP.

So, on the whole, I don't.

I agree really. I haven’t seen IW comments but I’ve seen a few comments re harry styles gets adored for similar levels of quirky/genderfluid while sam gets slammed for it and that seems true. Sam should get slammed for throwing women under the bus but I don’t care what they wear. I can’t see gc women saying the outfits are asking for it helping here.

You sound fun

I also compare it to the costumes and staging at Eurovision. Some of it is ridiculous, so why shouldn't we laugh? They (celebs in general) dress up in outlandish costumes in a bid to be on the next day's front pages. They want attention on their getups. They cannot dictate whether that attention is positive or negative. No-one is going round to SS's house and shouting "Oi, you look like a twat!" through the letterbox while they are having their tea.

@GromblesofGrimbledon

You're not commenting on his clothes though, you're commenting on him.

You say Dress 'like a twat' - that's a comment on the person, not what they're wearing.

You're saying that what someone wears makes them a 'twat'.

Say you hate what he's wearing, that's fine. But it doesn't make him a 'enter insult here'

It's very close to 'wearing a short skirt makes you a whore'.

But they are allowed to say things that extol them?

It's C for me,every fucking time.

Love how because SS isn’t born female we can rip into choices and style….such a balanced and inclusive approach. Or is it ok to mock people for being overweight? I’m confused…what can and can’t we take the piss out of without being labelled some kind of -ist or it being ‘internalised misogyny’.

B after C…

SS is a ‘celeb’, comments on clothing/actions are normal for ‘celebs’ from the public, surely?

Gender Identity isn't a shield for all criticism. If Sam Smith had gravy on Sam's chin, I'd say "Sam's personal hygiene seems lacking", same as I would anyone else. Sam's identity doesn't give Sam a free pass. Or would Sam actually like to be treated BETTER than everyone else?

P.S India is an awful person IMO. And whatever is between India's legs has no bearing on my view. It's what comes out of India's gob that makes the difference.

Sorry, I should have made it clear that the comments I dislike about Sam Smith are the ones laughing at their fat. In SS's latest magazine cover, many people are implying SS is too fat to be wearing those clothes etc.

Nobody is too fat to wear anything, and SS isn't even fat.

Dressing like a twat is a comment on Sam's behavior. Not a comment on Sam.

'Sam is a twat' would be a comment on Sam. Sam can behave differently and my response changes. Behaviours are events which can be decoupled from the person, should they desist.

I think that if you wear clothes to be talked about, that you cannot really complain when people do. I generally don’t comment on appearance, but I also don’t judge others who comment on the clothes of those people who wear those clothes for attention.

Like, I’m neutral about the fat topic and choose not to piss take people for their weight but you gotta see the funny side of being on the cover of an ‘Autonomy’ themed magazine wearing outfits that Sam Smith could never in a million years have gotten into without at least one person doing it up for him, if not two?

It doesn't matter what your weight is, if you go out trussed up like a burnt bbq chicken you're going to have the piss ripped out of you.