I don't agree with the ad-hominem comments on Sam Smith, India Willoughby et al.

[TERFCat]

Basically as the title says.

I think gender ideology can be robustly criticized without the need for comments on any individual's appearance or dress sense.

If you go to Twitter, a lot of the GC accounts I follow are currently laughing at Sam Smith for his latest magazine cover. I don't like SS, but I do think that they is free to dress how they want. SS shouldn't be body shamed either as they has a perfectly normal body.

Same goes for India. Don't like them, but I don't think their clothes etc should be mocked.

@TERFCat " Nobody is too fat to wear anything, and SS isn't even fat. "

What? Not even those people that weigh 3/400lbs?

My eyes! My innocent eyes!!

In context, beside all the other people featured in this issue of Perfect magazine, Sam Smith actually looks quite sensible:

www.theperfectmagazine.com/shop

TERFCat · Today 20:34

Sorry, I should have made it clear that the comments I dislike about Sam Smith are the ones laughing at their fat.

The only picture I really think of is him in the inflatable gimp suit, I hadn't really registered that he's slightly overweight.

Fran just needs D on that cap.

There's an awful lot of over-intellectualising going on in this thread for what amounts to "man dresses like a complete tube"

There you go Fran

‘HIS latest magazine cover’
’They is free’

100% this

There a back edge with clothes where you skate between 'edgy and cool' and 'fucking ridiculous' and it's a wafer this gap between the two. Yes, being skinny is more likely to have people put you on one side of it. It's true that if Bowie hadn't taken all the cocaine and looked more like the tubby Croydon boy he was meant to be, some of the outfits wouldn't have worn so well.

Harry Styles skates that back edge with total panache. The clown dungarees were over the line but mostly he gets it exactly right, edgy and fun, not stupid and ridiculous.

Sam Smith seems to invariably get it wrong. And it's not just his weight. There's plenty of celebs who carry a little extra and like Harry Styles still manage to look cool.

He can wear what he likes but we're the ones forced to look at it. Like wankers who drive yellow Hummers, they don't actually have to see it drive past.

@GromblesofGrimbledon

Your comment: "Dress like a twat and people will call you a twat."

suggests that if you dress in a certain way, it allows people to insult you personally.

If you substitute other words within that sentence e.g slut/whore are you still happy with it?

The first part of your comment had me bursting 😂

I read that in Gollum's voice

Commenting on dress sense is fair game. What I personally hate is GC accounts picking apart peoples appearance. Like saying 'definitely a man look at the height/shoulders/body hair/jawline/no curves' as if women are all dainty flowers with perfectly feminine features.

It's not only used at TRAs but also trans people who are GC/have reasonable opinions. And indirectly it's very offensive to women with those features to be told they look like a man.

Missed this thread but I have been saying for so long that picking on appearances is not on, that I'm actually sick of saying it. It's actually made me step back from this board a bit.
I know most don't but it's shit when people do.
Rainbow-bum penisy outfits are a separate matter...

I read that in Gollum's voice

Yoda also works.

But they are literally inviting comment?

Their image is their business, it's how they get interviews and make money.

I don't feel sorry for them. They are provocative deliberately.

Yes. I've said that about women I've seen dressed horrendously before. There are limits within social norms about what is an acceptable way to dress.

I haven't ever approached anyone and said "you look like a whore" to their face. But I'm free to think that and comment that to other people, whether or not you find it distasteful. I've also uttered the phrase, "he looks like a pure jakey" and "gie that lassie a bowl of soup she's staunin there like an x-ray". I say all sorts of things me.

I'd say it's factually accurate to look at the photos a PP has posted on this thread and say that Sam Smith looks like a BDSM whore. He is quite literally naked, arse in the air and bound with ropes. What do you want me to say? "Lovely knots, he must be a rare Boy Scout"?

What am I allowed to say? "They is stunning", "they is beautiful", "they is widening the bandwidth of beauty"?

They is widening the bandwidth of sheer tubery as far as I can see. But they is not the only celeb cutting about looking like a dafty by any means.

Can you provide a list of approved negative things I can say about Sam Smith?

I agree.

I don't like Sam Smith, but I don't like the way he is spoken about by a lot of people either. The identity stuff is one thing, but who cares if a pop star wears stupid clothes and looks daft? Knock yourself out, lad. Enjoy.

Willoughby is consistently nasty to women and so that is a bit different, but still no need for the vitriol. It doesn't do us any favours, and a lot of it is genuine transphobia rather than a critique of gender identity politics.

What @GromblesofGrimbledon said.

Criticism of dress sense is more appropriate on the Style board. I hate the implication - which is often quite heavily made - that how fem/masc you dress, or your face appears etc, has any relevance to your sex, or gender really.

And ridicule of SS's clothes is often on here purely because SS calls SSself non-binary.
I can't think of many other celebs who get their appearance dissected on S&G so it's disingenuous to say it's all about the outfits.

I hate dishonesty from TRAs and I hate it here.

As for IW, I find their misogyny and racism far more worthy of comment than their appearance (although India does seem to talk about that A LOT)

@AmuseBish come on. The blow up gimp suit would have attracted comment no matter who was wearing it or how they identified.

Some of the other stuff I'll give you but that one was 100% justified. It wasn't really even clothes.