Mary Harrington's 'Feminism Against Progress' book is out.

[ArabellaScott]

Looking forward to this one. I know she gets mixed responses; I find her work really interesting.

swiftpress.com/book/feminism-against-progress/

I agree. My DDs have them. My DH got the snip while I was pregnant with #4 so haven’t had any need for contraception for going on 19yrs now.

How does it deny breastfeeding? My DH was a SAHD from when the DC were under 3mos old and I still exclusively breastfed. From the breast in evening and nights, and he used bottles of expressed breastmilk while I was at work or away on business trips.

But if allowances are made you can still have a good life

humans don’t need to be rich

in fact we’re generally happier if we’re not

but a certain amount of money is needed for a happy life I think

women should be able to nurture their babies and still have a good economically comfortable life

"And I exclusively breastfed all of them until they self-weaned between ages 1-2. I used a breast pump."

Wow, serious respect to you @Onnabugeisha for all that pumping! Was that from birth? Cos I kinda want to make a pedantic (and I genuinely hope not offensive) distinction between feeding a baby expressed breast milk, and feeding a baby directly from the breast.

As you highlighted, the former can be done by anyone at all; the latter can only be done by the mother (leaving aside induced lactation in adoption etc).

Apologies @Onnabugeisha, another crossed post!

I know the pill is not as effective as condoms (and there's more effective contraception than the pill) and that it has adverse side effects. I've never taken it and wouldn't want to, mostly for health reasons.

I'm just questioning the claim that it caused the biggest change in sexual behaviour? Maybe I'm being oversensitive but I think criticising the pill kind of seems like an anti-feminist backlash. Also as someone who prefers condoms, if I did choose the pill it wouldn't change my sexual behaviour? Whereas lack of access to abortion would definitely change it as my safety net would be removed.

Not everyone is able to pump. I do find this argument tends to suggest we are far more mechanical than we actually are.

I agree about the primary caregiver not needing to be the mother necessarily - but in practise most mothers prefer this and it is the case in most families.

I don't think trying to discount our strong, instinctive drives to both procreate and mother infants will really work.

Well interestingly, MH said that the reason she stopped taking the Pill was that it was affecting her libido and therefore her sexual behaviour. I wish proper studies with control groups could look more at all this stuff.

Point is you have to compromise your biology in some way. When you feed from the breast the suckling and hormones in the mother which adjust the nutrient content of the milk won't be the same as if you're pumping. I'm not saying children are damaged because of this, at all! Perfection is not required. But women are asked to compromise more in the same situation of SAHP. It isn't equitable, yet.

I think the way forward with the gender pay gap is greater paternity leave and both parents working part time. The pandemic has accidentally accelerated this in some jobs I believe.

Yes, the pill can kill libido stone dead. Among other effects, including severe depression. They say its been improved with the newer 'mini pill' but I'd not touch hormonal medication with a bargepole tbh.

Well interestingly, MH said that the reason she stopped taking the Pill was that it was affecting her libido and therefore her sexual behaviour.

My libido absolutely tanked on it too, I also got depressed and developed migraines. It’s hard to quantify but I didn’t feel ‘myself’. When I finally came off it, it was like a fog lifted.

Yep, it’s all down to preference and choice. The strong instinctual drive to mother infants isn’t universal…many mothers struggle with not feeling it because they are told they are should. I never felt it and luckily rejected any criticism that tried to make me feel an “unnatural” mother.

It’s almost a religion this faux biology that women are simply animals/mammals and driven by base instincts to mother infants instead of human beings with agency and choice.

Well interestingly, MH said that the reason she stopped taking the Pill was that it was affecting her libido and therefore her sexual behaviour.

And yet this is precisely the opposite of what she is arguing.

faux biology that women are simply animals/mammals

But ... we are?

Ditto

what was the point of taking the pill if I never wanted sex?

Because your bloke could keep having lovely condom free sex, I understand.

faux biology that women are simply animals/mammals and driven by base instincts to mother infants instead of human beings with agency and choice.

women are simply animals (same as men)

and ALSO human beings with agency and choice (same as men)

No, I started pumping at 6wks because wanted to establish breastfeeding & my supply. The pumps then were not as good as they are now as they could maintain supply but not increase it like breastfeeding direct to an infant would.

I then pumped and built up a freezer stash for 4 wks before returning to work FT (no phased return). I did this by pumping from one breast while feeding from the other and doing a pumping session after the midnight(ish) feed.

There’s not much difference between expressed breastmilk and breastmilk from the source, not enough to the baby at any rate to say we can’t get equal economic power because we are side stepping biology by using a breast pump or formula (mixed or sole formula feeding). Besides my DC always got breastmilk from my boobs several times a day, every day except when I had to travel away for work. There’s no impact by not having every feed each day be direct from the breast.

No, we are more than animals/mammals.

With respect, the economic power thing is very much thinking inside the box

Fair play to you, Onna, I can't even imagine doing any of that!

But also animals

No. Disagree.

In what way?

We definitely are! If we’re not animals, what are we?