Why are the filmmakers of Affirmation Generation anonymous

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DH was actually becoming very convinced by their arguments but then he asked me what was the source? This was triggered by the fact that there was footage of Helen Joyce on GB News. I actually found this documentary on Mumsnet so I didn't actually know. We stopped watching halfway and we did a deep dive into the people behind the documentary

DH has always been very insistent that he needs to establish the provenance of all the news sources/media that he consumes in order to ensure that they are not fake news sources. Since we can't find anything, he is now convinced that the entire documentary is garbage since we can't establish who is behind them and from what we can surmise, it seems to be a group of mothers of trans kids (many of whom are keeping their identities anonymous). Is it that necessary for them to be so discreet regarding their identities? There is also little coverage of this documentary, which lessens its credibility in DH's eyes.

I feel like a lot of people may think like DH and this would mean that an excellent documentary doesn't reach its intended audience. I feel sad because i was really enjoying the documentary and i felt like i was learning so much but then it is overshadowed by the fact that I don't actually know who is behind it! Dh might sound very unreasonable in what kind of media he permits himself to watch but that is because he attended an ultra orthodox jewish school as a child (where he was told many untrue things) and had a father who was a bit of a conspiracy theorist so he has learnt this way of filtering information (only read news and consume media from reputable sources). I tried to explain to Dh that they are keeping their identities anonymous foe fear of losing their jobs. However at the same time, doesn't that mean the whole argument isn't as convincing and isn't the point of the documentary to educate?

To be fair to DH, he does say he will read Helena Barnes' book about the Tavistock Clinic (recommended by FT) and maybe he will then be ready to watch this documentary...

You can't expect me to believe trans activists are somehow more scary than Putin

Yes, I would rather be non-fatally assaulted or hounded out of my job than be murdered. But I very much hope to avoid all these fates.

You and your husband haven't been paying attention to what has happened to 'reputable' media and seem totally sucked up into respectability politics under the guise of intellectual rigor. If you truly care about provenance, I challenge you to take any one article about gender-affirming medical care from a media of you have the utmost confidence in and follow that rabbit hole. Read the base scientific literature, the history , the explosive stats of 'trans children', the actors involved and then may start connecting dots. Explore the new biology of sex, read some textbooks rather pop sci magazines. Ask yourself why Helen Joyce is on GB and not the BBC. Your legacy media has been gatekeeping some very basic information from you. Your husband may have recognised religious zealotry from his youth but what being sceptical about any ideology that starts with NO Debate?

I don’t need to convince any one of any thing. Res ipsa loquitur. You are a very odd poster I have to say.

No. I’m not a Tory but I still know a man can’t turn in to a woman through magical thinking. I’d be more concerned about your husband’s thought process if his default starting point is that they can. God he really has gotten very far from his ultra orthodox Jewish upbringing hasn’t he.

There is no ‘us vs. Them’, just the fact that human beings can’t change sex. Anyone peddling this lie to children is a deeply dangerous individual. There isn’t a lot of nuance to that.

God he really has gotten very far from his ultra orthodox Jewish upbringing hasn’t he.

🤣

@bellinisurge Thank you for the link, have just watched it.

He has a younger sister who is Gen Z and is very very pro trans (due to too much time on the internet). He was raised in an orthodox Jewish family,; only the primary schooling was ultra orthodox (and only for the eldest two). His family actually have fairly liberal views on social issues, the focus in his household was more on ritual than on social issues. Hence why my MIL let my DH's girlfriends stay over but woe betide my DH if he switched on a kettle on Saturday in front of her (though she has largely given up on that).

His sister has convinced him that this is a group of marginalized people and he thought that even if women can't turn into men because of magical thinking, we should let people believe what they want to believe. And even give them the legal means to allow them to do so. As for the toilets issue, we should have unisex toilets (I disagree with him on this as I don't want to go to unisex public toilets).

But if children are being harmed in the process, that's a different story..

I find younger Gen Z-ers are pretty over the gender stuff really. They’ve all seen Dylan Mulvaney on TikTok and said ‘no thank you’.

It’s Millenials that seem to have swallowed the woowoo unquestioningly.

Thread on the above topic:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4746902-anyone-else-hearing-of-backlash-against-trans-ideology-among-their-teens

In that case, go and look at the women's groups who are trying to protect children. Eg Transgender Trend, Safe Schools Alliance.

Also, google the Cass report. Hilary Cass is a government appointed paediatrician who has recommended that the children's gender clinic at the Tavistock is shut down, due to the unethical and unevidenced medical/surgical pathway that the children are being funnelled down.

If you are genuine about harm to children being a different story, then you might look back on this thread as being something of a seminal moment.

Btw everyone, thank you for all the links. I will read them tonight and show it to him.

She is 24 this year..I think it is the community element. I do find it disturbing that she has very fixed views on gender roles- she told me the other week that it was her impression(from books) that mothers stayed at home after having a baby hence no need for expensive childcare. Tbh her mother also has that view (she WFH while caring for her 4 children with no childcare so she believes women should either WFH or stay at home with the baby rather than pay for childcare). If I believed that, I would not want to be a woman either as it seems bleak and quite limiting tbh!

I retorted that the last woman to give up her job for babies in my family was my great grandmother (who was a servant turned concubine) nearly 100 years ago and this has not been in the case in the West either for many years. I can see that transitioning to another gender would make sense if you think that women need to give up elements of her identity simply because she has babies (which is a regular biological function).

There is a good Swedish documentary series too, called ‘The Trans Train’ - I think they’re up to 4 parts now:

So he isn’t the brightest bulb then, that a young person can convince him quite easily that what he knows to be untrue is in fact true.

Sweden are ahead of the curve at understanding the damage and trying to halt it.

Article from 2020:
amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/22/ssweden-teenage-transgender-row-dysphoria-diagnoses-soar

They realised that referrals went up when positive trans stories were in the media (evidence of social contagion) by 2022:

www.medscape.com/viewarticle/967835

And from this year: amp.france24.com/en/live-news/20230208-sweden-puts-brakes-on-treatments-for-trans-minors

It's not about whether it's true whether a man who wants to be a woman is a woman..it's about whether society and the state should respect how people identify and the limits of this approach.

For example, I have a friend who is a political anarchist and identifies as Jewish even though he doesn't want to go through the conversion process for philosophical reasons. As someone who has been through the conversion process, I still treat him like any other Jewish person and I would say that he is Jewish and I think anyone who doesn't recognize him as Jewish is a bit of an arse. Cos he clearly identified with the community. People are also by and large welcoming to him.

I think my DH was thinking along these lines.

So if your anarchist friend identified as a woman would she then be able to sit with you and the other women in the synagogue?

’It's not about whether it's true whether a man who wants to be a woman is a woman’ - No it is exactly about that. People can present as they like and should be able to live free and happy lives. That doesn’t involve collective self deception that a castrated man is a woman and that legally they should be treated as a woman. That’s clearly nonsense. That should also not include lying to children about the ability of humans to change sex.
PS your friend is not a Jew, they are a poseur. That’s the most ridiculous example I have yet heard.

Or menstruate?

where you sit in synagogue is definitely negotiable

being born with the kind of body that gestates babies ain’t

Also you, a convert to Judaism, have a bit of a cheek telling people born in to Jewish households and brought up as Jews in a Jewish community who is or isn’t a Jew. Actually it’s very like blokes in frocks setting themselves up as the arbiter of who is a woman.

PS your friend is not a Jew, they are a poseur. That’s the most ridiculous example I have yet heard.

Yes that really jarred with me too.

Actually a convert has the same status as someone who is born Jewish. They are not second class citizens. My point wasn't to go into the halacha of who is and who isn't a Jew. I mean different denominations have their own interpretation for a start. What about the orthodox converts in the USA whose conversions were suddenly revoked by the Beit Din in Israel. Were they suddenly not Jewish despite being Jewish for decades. I thought that was ridiculous.

But my point was that I think people are free to identify with what they are comfortable with. How does it hurt me whether my friend identifies as Jewish or not. Again it's the no harm principle.

Synagogue has mixed seating tbh so not an issue.

Oh well that’s fine then

I’ll pick up some tampons for your chum