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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kate Forbes reported for 'transphobia'

291 replies

ArabellaScott · 21/02/2023 16:01

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23336504.kate-forbes-may-breached-snp-rules-transphobia/

'KATE Forbes looks set to be probed by the SNP's conduct committee after members of the party's LGBTQ+ wing accused her of breaking rules on transphobia.

In an interview with ITV Border, when asked if she believed a trans woman is a woman, the Finance Secretary replied: "I believe that a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."'

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 21/02/2023 20:31

RealFeminist · 21/02/2023 20:11

AHVE GOT LOADS OF MUGS.

Grin
flyingbuttress43 · 21/02/2023 20:38

Seems like some of the SNP can't handle an honest politician.

lordloveadog · 21/02/2023 20:48

"It forcing the term man and woman to be about genotype when society increasingly sees them as a phenotype."

Phenotype does not mean what you think it means.

funnelfan · 21/02/2023 21:09

Kate Forbes is a "Wee Free" isn't she, so her being socially conservative shouldn't be a surprise to anyone in Scotland. I think there's a useful discussion to be had on the influence of one's faith on one's public duty. I think people should be able to believe what they like in private but if politicians start making public comments based on those beliefs then they should expect that voters would want to ask questions on how those views would impact policy if they were in a leadership position in the party.

To be honest if I were a voter in Scotland I'd find her views on abortion, children born outside marriage and on marriage equality more worthy of close examination.

BluebellBlueballs · 21/02/2023 21:31

Hebridean · 21/02/2023 16:47

the way she phrased it is basically outing the transwoman as being biologically male which isn't okay

How is that outing? By definition a transwoman is a biological male.

Indeed
Does anyone know any TW who ARENT bio males?

Caster Semenya possibly but that's veering into DSD territory and I don't think the very rare case of such should inform a general definition.

JanesLittleGirl · 21/02/2023 21:53

Whisper it quietly but we know. We all know. Two year olds know.

ditalini · 21/02/2023 22:04

Everyone in Scotland knew what Kate Forbes faith based opinions on all of these topics were.

This includes all of those who nominated her and then have backtracked in great haste all day as if it was a terrible surprise.

If she'd chosen to fudge, prevaricate and lie in these interviews she would have been torn apart.

I think she took the only route open to her and was pretty unequivocal re: not letting her personal beliefs affect how other people live their lives.

Probably this is incompatible with party leadership, but while I disagree with her views I think she's conducted herself honourably.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 21/02/2023 22:17

I think she took the only route open to her and was pretty unequivocal re: not letting her personal beliefs affect how other people live their lives.

Probably this is incompatible with party leadership, but while I disagree with her views I think she's conducted herself honourably.

I think it's a real shame that someone who isn't willing to lie their way to the top, and who has no personal beliefs other than "I am the best, me, me, me", is effectively barred from political leadership.

My beliefs are entirely opposite from hers, but I don't think she should be stopped from political leadership as a result. I think we should have watertight legislative checks and balances in place to stop one person's belief systems overriding the things we don't want to lose - equal marriage, abortion, etc.

Abhannmor · 21/02/2023 22:22

Yes she has been very forthright and honest in her replies. Also compassionate and clear about separation of church and state.
It seems most Scots agree with her on Self ID . I don't think this means they are socially conservative , although some no doubt are.

I think most Scots are tolerant and broadminded. They just know there is nothing progressive about letting men into spaces where women and girls need privacy and safety. Putting women's health and safety at risk and telling them to shut up about it is authoritarian and regressive.

Maybe it's embarrassing to be told this by a Christian fundamentalist. But that's not Kate's fault.

ResisterRex · 21/02/2023 22:23

Kemi Badenoch has commented:

www.politico.eu/article/uk-equalities-minister-kemi-badenoch-defends-under-fire-snp-hopeful-kemi-badenoch-faith-conservative-party-free-church-scotland/

"Badenoch told a POLITICO event in London Tuesday night that she would defend the right of Forbes to hold those views, and refused to condemn her comments in her role as equalities minister.
“I think that is sad because I believe in freedom of conscience,” she said of the backlash. “That’s one of the things that makes this country great. It’s one of the reasons why many people want to live here.”
Badenoch — viewed as a rising star in the Conservative Party, which is at odds with the SNP on the key question of Scottish independence — said she admired Forbes “for not being dishonest” about her faith.
“It’d be very easy for her to tell lies, just so that she could win that election,” Badenoch said of Forbes. “And she’s not doing that, and I think that that’s something that people need to take into account.”
Badenoch also condemned SNP politicians who have yanked their support from the under-fire contender. Shelved endorsements of Forbes, she argued, show “the level of un-seriousness of many of the people who engage in political activity and commentary.”
Asked by POLITICO whether she would condemn the views Forbes had put forward, Badenoch directly declined, and said that while she personally supports gay marriage, she “would not want people to condemn me for having personal views.”

Pointing to her role as “guardian” of the U.K.’s Equality Act, which includes religious protections, Badenoch said: “To ask me to criticize someone for their religious beliefs, when I’m supposed to be safeguarding it, shows that those people don’t understand equality. What they want is to use the Equality Act as a sword to fight their own personal battles, rather than as a shield to prevent others from discrimination.”"

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 21/02/2023 22:24

Fuck I really like Kemi. I hope she goes far.

BellaAmorosa · 21/02/2023 22:33

Well said, Kemi.

I've just had a look at Wings over Scotland twitter and there are MSPs dumping on KF for her views - as if they've only just discovered she is a Christian or is anti-abortion and gay marriage. I strongly disagree with her on those areas but she is obviously a true democrat and a woman of honour and principle. It's so obviously a stitch-up by the SNP faction which wants Humza Yousef. They must think their compatriots are too thick to notice.

PinkTonic · 21/02/2023 22:34

Grumpybutfunny · 21/02/2023 16:39

@hryllilegur it the use of biological male that's the issue and seen as transphobic, the way she phrased it is basically outing the transwoman as being biologically male which isn't okay. It's the same argument as saying someone of a different ethnic background is say British-Asian when they simply identify British that wouldn't be accepted so neither should misgendering or insisting on bringing genetics into what is an identity.

@ResisterRex she paid as a politician to abide by their beliefs and codes of ethics. If she choose to let her own beliefs come into that's she needs to face the consequences.

So for me I'm biologically female, identify as a female with a male husband. If I'm forced to give a gender I'm female but otherwise I'm simply grumpy. I don't use Mrs, Ms, Miss, Dr, Proff etc always select other where I can or leave it blank. As a gender identity doesn't define me as a person it just says which sex organs I was born with. It would be so much easier to end all this with right life is totally gender neutral no more woman, men, non-binary etc

you need to have a rethink as you’re clearly confused.

As a gender identity doesn't define me as a person it just says which sex organs I was born with

Gender Identity doesn’t say anything about your sex organs according to the ideology, that’s the issue.

GiveMeStrengthNow · 21/02/2023 22:36

Hebridean · Today 16:47
"the way she phrased it is basically outing the transwoman as being biologically male which isn't okay"

It isn't ok to say that a trans woman is biologically male but now identifies as a trans woman! Why not, it's true. The world we live in where people tie themselves in knots rather than state the truth. Hopefully people are starting to wake up to this nonsense and realise that the facts and truth are important rather than spinning lies. A trans woman is basically a man that wants to be a woman and becoming a trans woman is his best shot at it. He lives as he thinks a woman lives. There is more to being a woman that just saying you are one.

ArabellaScott · 21/02/2023 22:46

What they want is to use the Equality Act as a sword to fight their own personal battles, rather than as a shield to prevent others from discrimination.

👌

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DuesToTheDirt · 21/02/2023 22:49

On the news on one of my local radio stations today... sorry, I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something like:

Newsreader: Kate Forbes has come under fire for her opposition to sex outside marriage.
Clip of KF speaking: I don't believe in sex outside marriage, in my religion it is wrong. But if other people believe otherwise, they are welcome to believe that.

So what she said and how it was reported were not really the same. Quelle surprise.

Clarabell77 · 21/02/2023 22:55

StalkedByASpider · 21/02/2023 17:19

No, I don't think it is the same at all.

A British-Asian is British. The subcategory of Asian doesn't add anything. Lots of us may have international heritage if we check our ancestry but we still call ourselves British by virtue of birth. British is British.

In my example, the French person IS French. They can call themselves British because that's up to them, but they are still French - regardless of how they feel.

A trans woman is biologically male. There is no part of them which is biologically female. Referring back to your British-Asian example, the British-Asian person IS still British, even if you want to add the Asian descriptor. A trans woman is not a biological woman. Not at all. It's not an added descriptor. It's a French person who wants to call themselves British when they're not.

Unfortunately for those who prefer to solely use gender, biology matters. It is only men who rape. The overwhelming majority of sexual and violent assaults are carried out by biological men, regardless of how they identify. Men are bigger, stronger and more powerful when compared pound for pound to their female counterparts. That's why biological men can't enter most women's sports.

I'm not advocating for this person for First Minister. I'm not Scottish and tbh, I don't know much about her at all. But I do think the world would be a much better place if politicians were more honest and clearer. I think her response is excellent actually - trans women are biological men but she respects their right to identify as a woman. Pretty much covers all bases I think - other than those who are demanding that she pretends that a biological man IS actually a woman. Which is untrue and just ridiculous - but that's where we're at now and why the SNP is being laughed at.

I also very much disagree with you that the world is "increasingly" recognising gender over biology. If anything it appears to be reverting to biology. Thank goodness.

“Why the SNP is being laughed at”

The Gender Reform bill was voted through by a majority of MSPs, including, believe it or not, some conservatives. It wasn’t only about Nicola Sturgeon and it’s not only about the SNP.

This is all a ploy by the Tory controlled mainstream media to undermine the Scottish Parliament and attack the SNP, all driven by fear of Scotland leaving the UK. Can’t believe so many have fallen for it.

Apollo441 · 21/02/2023 22:56

'I don't believe in sex outside marriage, in my religion it is wrong. But if other people believe otherwise, they are welcome to believe that'.

She.is.literally.Hitler.

Hepwo · 21/02/2023 23:04

This is all a ploy by the Tory controlled mainstream media to undermine the Scottish Parliament and attack the SNP, all driven by fear of Scotland leaving the UK. Can’t believe so many have fallen for it.

Are you telling us that all the male criminals in women's prisons are actually Tory controlled mainstream media employees there only to save the alliance! Bloody hell, that was a cunning stunt, so many people fell for it.

Can they come out now please? Or will they be staying?
I assume you are supportive of the SNP rapist choice bill?

littlbrowndog · 21/02/2023 23:06

JanesLittleGirl · 21/02/2023 21:53

Whisper it quietly but we know. We all know. Two year olds know.

We do

ArabellaScott · 21/02/2023 23:12

This is all a ploy by the Tory controlled mainstream media to undermine the Scottish Parliament and attack the SNP, all driven by fear of Scotland leaving the UK. Can’t believe so many have fallen for it.

Eh?

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Mojoyoyo · 21/02/2023 23:13

That story of the emperors new clothes comes to mind again.
Are we supposed to agree that a person with a penis and balls is a woman 🤣just because they say they are ?

Waitwhat23 · 21/02/2023 23:14

Good point made on Twitter that once the machinations of the SNP have destroyed Kate's chance (and more - there's calls from some for her to be removed from her position/the Government/the SNP entirely), then the focus of destruction will move onto Ash Regan.

Eyesofdisarray · 21/02/2023 23:15

Is Grumpy grumpysplaining? Because it doesn't makes sense to me. It's not me is it?

Hebridean · 21/02/2023 23:26

@GiveMeStrengthNow just wanted to point out that the text you quoted wasn't mine, it was Grumpy's. I'm not taking credit for that nonsense 🤨

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