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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Kate Forbes reported for 'transphobia'

291 replies

ArabellaScott · 21/02/2023 16:01

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23336504.kate-forbes-may-breached-snp-rules-transphobia/

'KATE Forbes looks set to be probed by the SNP's conduct committee after members of the party's LGBTQ+ wing accused her of breaking rules on transphobia.

In an interview with ITV Border, when asked if she believed a trans woman is a woman, the Finance Secretary replied: "I believe that a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."'

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 21/02/2023 18:19

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · Today 18:02

No. It was a Brian Souter event.

Brian "I Love Section 28 God Hates Fags Stagecoach" Souter?

bellac11 · 21/02/2023 18:20

nepeta · 21/02/2023 18:17

I am no longer bothered by it online, as it's used so often its shock or scold value is zero. The same is true of fascist etc. The most common context for them is when the person can't argue against your point or can't produce any evidence for an argument etc.

But I am bothered by the widespread use of 'transphobe' leaving us with no words to describe true hatred of transgender people etc.

Show quote history

Yes I agree. And while Im ok about it here, I cant express my full views at work properly (and neither can my colleagues)

Ofcourseshecan · 21/02/2023 18:21

Grumpybutfunny · 21/02/2023 16:18

Very sloppy reply for a politician she should have either declined to answer or answer it properly. As it's stands her answer is transphobic by the code she signed up to represent. It should have been phrased to acknowledge gender identity even if she wanted to rock the boat and add biology to the end of it.

Something like I do believe a trans woman is a woman as an individual has the right to identify as whichever or non gender they wish, this principle is the corner stone of gender identity. This shouldn't be confused with biological genotype which is usually assigned at birth and can be different to someone gender identity

Far from sloppy, it is perfectly clear. As well as being true, which is important to most people even though transactivists don't seem to understand the concept of truth.

If Kate had said I do believe a trans woman is a woman as an individual has the right to identify as whichever or non gender they wish she would have been lying. She doesn't believe transwomen are women, whatever they identify as.

Your statement that biological genotype ... is usually assigned at birth is also untrue. Your genes, your sex etc are all determined at conception. The sex of a foetus can be recognised long before birth. Nothing is 'assigned' at birth.

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 21/02/2023 18:21

SinnerBoy · 21/02/2023 18:19

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · Today 18:02

No. It was a Brian Souter event.

Brian "I Love Section 28 God Hates Fags Stagecoach" Souter?

The very one!

Ofcourseshecan · 21/02/2023 18:23

I am so hoping that Kate Forbes' simple, honest and correct statement will win her a lot of support from people who have been disgusted by the Scottish prisons policy and re sick of the dishonesty around genderism.

Signalbox · 21/02/2023 18:24

Something like I do believe a trans woman is a woman as an individual has the right to identify as whichever or non gender they wish, this principle is the corner stone of gender identity. This shouldn't be confused with biological genotype which is usually assigned at birth and can be different to someone gender identity

I'm sorry but this is hilarious. People have lost their marbles.

SinnerBoy · 21/02/2023 18:26

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · Today 18:21

The very one!

Ah. Is there any fund we can donate to for him? To compensate him for being to inept to run a profitable rail line and make a profit, even with Government subsidies?

SirChenjins · 21/02/2023 18:29

bellac11 · 21/02/2023 18:12

Is anyone bothered by being labelled transphobic, given that as far as I can see the word is meaningless.

Not at all - I consider it a badge of honour in the same way that not being a flat earther is.

2bazookas · 21/02/2023 18:30

GiveMeStrengthNow · 21/02/2023 17:21

Poor Scottish people will have a candidate cancelled out due to using factually correct words. Any Scottish people on here - do you care?

Scotland's First Minister got cancelled because she refused to use factually correct words.

ILikeDungs · 21/02/2023 18:31

I am pages behind but surely, claiming Forbes should have said:

I do believe a trans woman is a woman as an individual has the right to identify as whichever or non gender they wish, this principle is the corner stone of gender identity. This shouldn't be confused with biological genotype which is usually assigned at birth and can be different to someone gender identity

is utterly bonkers funny-- wtf does "whichever or non gender they wish" mean, anyway? Are they at the pic n mix? And what biological genotypes, if by that is meant the chemical composition of their DNA, is assigned at birth? A baby's name can be assigned at birth. DNA is from conception. It is who they are.

And why should she say it if she does not believe it? I salute an honest answer from a candidate.

hryllilegur · 21/02/2023 18:32

Igneococcus · 21/02/2023 17:56

It forcing the term man and woman to be about genotype when society increasingly sees them as a phenotype

How do you define phenotype?

It’s word salad as diversion tactics.

Forbes didn’t even say transwomen were biologically men. She sad biologically male. It’s not the same thing even for those who would appropriate terms like phenotype and genotype to try to confuse people into thinking biological sex isn’t real.

the number of people who actually believe that sex is a phenotype not a genotype is very small indeed. Most people simply aren’t equipped to even tackle the statement (and that’s why it’s framed that way). But they do believe that humans are biologically male or female (unless there’s a disorder involved).

Ofcourseshecan · 21/02/2023 18:34

MarkWithaC · 21/02/2023 17:22

I absolutely condemn her stance on abortion.
But this is madness. Like, The Crucible levels of madness.
I must say, I don't think the Forstater ruling is that helpful; it isn't a 'belief' to talk factually about biological sex. I do understand that maybe that was the only way, legally, the case could be brought or made watertight, but it's problematic.

But she's said she wouldn't change the law on abortion, and recognises that women don't undertake an abortion lightly, even though she herself would never have one.

Has she made other statements that contradict this? Because that sounds fine to me.

MarkWithaC · 21/02/2023 18:36

Ofcourseshecan · 21/02/2023 18:34

But she's said she wouldn't change the law on abortion, and recognises that women don't undertake an abortion lightly, even though she herself would never have one.

Has she made other statements that contradict this? Because that sounds fine to me.

Show quote history

No you're quite right; I posted in haste, before having read that. I should say 'I absolutely disagree with her personal stance on abortion.'

Hepwo · 21/02/2023 18:44

Grumpybutfunny · 21/02/2023 16:18

Very sloppy reply for a politician she should have either declined to answer or answer it properly. As it's stands her answer is transphobic by the code she signed up to represent. It should have been phrased to acknowledge gender identity even if she wanted to rock the boat and add biology to the end of it.

Something like I do believe a trans woman is a woman as an individual has the right to identify as whichever or non gender they wish, this principle is the corner stone of gender identity. This shouldn't be confused with biological genotype which is usually assigned at birth and can be different to someone gender identity

She doesn't believe that though. She said what she believes. Why can't she say what she believes without being probed? (Which sounds very unpleasant).

Why do we have to go through all that contorted waffle you have set out, for a manipulative "code", when it's actually as plain as the nose on your face?

BellaAmorosa · 21/02/2023 19:01

She gave a succinct, accurate and nonjudgmental description. She should e commended if anything, not investigated.
I'm not Scottish but Ashten Regan seems like the best candidate. I like Kate Forbes so far - honest, courageous, principled and intelligent. But I disagree that the process for getting a GRC should be streamlined/made easier. (WHY???)
Kate Forbes is being targeted and I hope it backfires badly on the sections of the SNP who are orchestrating this.

Hepwo · 21/02/2023 19:17

Transwoman are male. There's no need to even say biological. There is no other way to be male unless you are a type of connector.

RealFeminist · 21/02/2023 19:36

Fairislefandango · 21/02/2023 18:10

the way she phrased it is basically outing the transwoman as being biologically male

Ffs. 'Outing' someone means revealing something aboutthem against their will. Outing a transwoman as being biologically male is not a thing, since it's literally impossible to be a transwoman unless you are a biological male. Every single transwoman who has ever existed has been a biological male. No outing necessary, no concealment possible.

THE INDIVIDUAL CONCERNED WAS OUTED AS RAPISTGENDER

CryInToYourCornflakesNicola · 21/02/2023 19:53

It forcing the term man and woman to be about genotype when society increasingly sees them as a phenotype

I guarantee you they are seen for exactly what they are. You cannot hide your
Gait
Shoulder width
Large face
Large hands
Large feet
Etc etc

You can call phenotype all you want, but we can see.
No one is forcing genotype, it just is. Cannot change facts.

BellaAmorosa · 21/02/2023 19:59

@RealFeminist
THE INDIVIDUAL CONCERNED WAS OUTED AS RAPISTGENDER
😂
For some reason, all caps makes it funnier!

GailBlancheViola · 21/02/2023 20:03

Grumpybutfunny · 21/02/2023 16:18

Very sloppy reply for a politician she should have either declined to answer or answer it properly. As it's stands her answer is transphobic by the code she signed up to represent. It should have been phrased to acknowledge gender identity even if she wanted to rock the boat and add biology to the end of it.

Something like I do believe a trans woman is a woman as an individual has the right to identify as whichever or non gender they wish, this principle is the corner stone of gender identity. This shouldn't be confused with biological genotype which is usually assigned at birth and can be different to someone gender identity

What a load of tripe, your idea of what Kate should have said is the word salad to end all word salads. If Kate had come out with that risible bollocks she would have looked and sounded idiotic, the public detest politicians who waffle meaninglessly so good on her for sticking to basic, simple, easily understood words in sentences that the public will understand and appreciate.

For future reference: Sex is not assigned at birth and gender identity is not recognised in law nor is it a protected characteristic in the EQA 2010.

ResisterRex · 21/02/2023 20:06

@RealFeminist you should do a line in mugs. Or greetings cards!

RealFeminist · 21/02/2023 20:11

AHVE GOT LOADS OF MUGS.

Tessisme · 21/02/2023 20:12

Why do reporters/interviewers keep asking this question if there is only one 'right' answer? Bloody shit stirrers.

Aphrathestorm · 21/02/2023 20:19

This witch hunt against Forbes has the stench of Sturgeon, Robertson and Yousef all over it.

The old guard are using disgusting misogynistic tactics to discredit an honourable woman.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 21/02/2023 20:21

RealFeminist · 21/02/2023 20:11

AHVE GOT LOADS OF MUGS.

😂😂😂