Trans and losing my mind...

[bluepetergeneration]

Posting here in good faith. And I'll leave that at that.

I'm a TS. I was born male. I don't normally post on mumsnet but I started using it as I have a 1 year old DD. I won't tell my whole life story, that would be self indulgent, so I'll just say what I came here to say.

I'm sick to death of my community. I'm sick of the misogyny. I'm under no illusion that I'm a woman or ever will be. I transitioned when I was very young so I pass, but I still now only use female bathrooms when there's no other option (such as a disabled bathroom- I would feel unsafe in the mens). What I have is a disorder- it was crippling- and now I live my life so that I can actually enjoy it and not feel 'wrong'.

The idea of self-ID sickens me, and I'm tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again with other trans people who accuse me of being some kind of self hating transsexual just because I care about the safety of women. I also care about the safety of my kid. Partly because I'm worried she'll be in danger because I'm trans, and also because I don't want her to get caught up in all these weird messages that being trans isn't a disorder around dysphoria (which it is).

I guess I'm posting this to say that in this fight, trans people with genuine dysphoria who aren't delusional will be standing right beside you.

Also a plea to not paint all of us with the same brush. You can fight for the rights of trans people (like me, I should be able to present female and not get attacked, and when I was in my late teens and still looked a bit male I did get attacked) and also be gender critical

Who is the poster that said that? If you are going to claim it, then did out the posts and quote me.

Dig

Amongst other, your 9.40 post:

'I don’t think men should be allowed to adopt babies.'

For the record, yes, you and I agree that trans women are men.

Right- I stepped away from this last night as I had other things going on and this became too much to read, but I'll clear a few things up:

• I wasn't going to say this because it feels incredibly personal and my situation is quite rare so I was worried about being identified by the people who know me. But I'll just go ahead and say it: my husband is also a male (born male), and we adopted. I'm not going to explain or discuss this any further as we're talking about my daughter who I would walk through fire to protect. The 'two men shouldn't adopt' comments are disappointing, and I thank those of you who called this out. I transitioned in my early 20s and therefore was unable to have biological children. Feel free to discuss this if you like, but I won't be chipping in.
• I've read all your responses on the toilet issue, and please know I hear you and understand why so many of you are in the position where you are now jaded about letting people like me in women's toilets. I feel as if I've been forced into saying what I've been hesitant to say until now because it feels terribly self indulgent and 'me me me', but: I've been on hormones for over 15 years, my muscle mass has changed, I'm 5'7, and would feel unsafe in a men's bathroom because if someone looked at me and put 2 and 2 together and said 'she's in here because she's one of those trans people!' and then was aggressive or attacked me, I wouldn't stand a bloody chance. Even if they didn't put 2 and 2 together, I would feel unsafe standing next to a bunch of men, and I came here in good faith thinking people would understand that (not that that was even the focus of my original post).
• So to those of you who say I should be campaigning for a situation where I didn't have to pick either, I agree with you, and it's given me a lot of food for thought. For those of you who say 'just go in the mens!' I hope that me explaining my physical stats has given some understanding as to why that isn't a possibility for me.

I'm stepping away from this now as it's become too much, but I hope that some of you take away from my original post that there's a spectrum of trans people and a lot of us recognise that biological sex is real and are anti-self ID. We need solutions which keep both real transsexuals and women safe. Have a good Sunday everyone.

EndlessTea doesn't think men should be allowed to adopt, argue that point with her instead of trying to make out she's transphobic or homophobic.

But in essence you're still telling us, you're going to use women's facilities and the women you leave with nothing at all.... oh dear, how sad, never mind.

Heavy sigh.

And women are supposed to be OK WITH THIS .

#notyourmum

Thank you for sharing about adopting @bluepetergeneration even though you fear it might be outing. I appreciate it.

@bluepetergeneration good on you giving a child a chance by adoption. You as a TS is no different to any other couple adopting. I wouldn't have a problem with you in the ladies unlike some of the XX individuals on here who can't tolerate change. In my opinion all this could be settled by getting rid of female and male toilets etc and going to one room with individual cubicles. That would also solve the issue of mams like yourself who have older boys but don't want to send their kids into the toilet alone in case someone is doing lines etc.

I also said that I think it is better for hard to place children to have a permanent home with men than to be in residential or foster care. So, - babies. No. Babies and small children need a mother. I am not being absolute about men adopting in all cases and I don’t think the sexual orientation of the parents is relevant.

all this could be settled by getting rid of female and male toilets etc and going to one room with individual cubicles

And make women have to share toilets with men. 🙄

As I see it, it is easy to become entrenched in a hard-line GC purity spiral which takes no prisoners and no shit. The whole issue then becomes a theoretical or academic one rather than a pragmatic political one with defined and measurable goals.

I think we all know that there are many long standing transsexuals who transitioned a long time ago before Radical Queer Theory took over - with the active support and promotion of certain organisations and lobby groups. It was always inevitable that these individuals would become casualties in the ensuing push back, which has become necessarily and increasingly hard-line as the extreme positions and demands of the gender ideologues demand equally firm response.

Personally, I don't think there is much to be gained through alienating such 'supportive' individuals as the OP. I'd rather take them with me until the immediate goals have been achieved, and then deal with the finer subtleties, discussions, practical issues afterwards.

If we can get to a place where broadly GC transsexuals are ( also) actively and publicly campaigning for third spaces and categories that would be an achievement and a worthwhile course of action to pursue

I've read all your responses on the toilet issue, and please know I hear you and understand why so many of you are in the position where you are now jaded about letting people like me in women's toilets. I feel as if I've been forced into saying what I've been hesitant to say until now because it feels terribly self indulgent and 'me me me', but: I've been on hormones for over 15 years, my muscle mass has changed, I'm 5'7, and would feel unsafe in a men's bathroom because if someone looked at me and put 2 and 2 together and said 'she's in here because she's one of those trans people!' and then was aggressive or attacked me, I wouldn't stand a bloody chance. Even if they didn't put 2 and 2 together, I would feel unsafe standing next to a bunch of men, and I came here in good faith thinking people would understand that (not that that was even the focus of my original post).

@bluepetergeneration You are right it is all me, me, me on your behalf, glad you've admitted that. For the record I am a lot shorter than 5' 7" and have never had muscles so you are certainly built a hell of a lot differently to me and I would stand no chance against you should you become aggressive.

Your imagined scenario in the male toilets is just that your imagination and because of that you feel justified in making women like me feel unsafe or uncomfortable in your presence.

Despite the hormones it seems the inbuilt male arrogance of putting yourself first never goes away.

I see you as belonging to the WPUK ‘camp’.

They definitely subscribe to this view.

I don’t.

I genuinely appreciate your posts, and I hope that you will continue to be supportive and maybe also join in any campaigns for third spaces, services and categories. That way we can all have our feelings of dignity, privacy and safety recognised.

If we can get to a place where broadly GC transsexuals are ( also) actively and publicly campaigning for third spaces and categories that would be an achievement and a worthwhile course of action to pursue

But they are not are they? They want special dispensation to use female facilities and services, and they self-id into those because no-one is allowed to question it or ask if they have the fabled piece of paper that is a GRC. Prominent TW brag on social media that even when an alternative facility for them is provided they will still seek out and use those facilities that are designated for females only. So no, they are not supportive, it is still all about them being a somehow 'special case'.

If they truly wanted to be supportive they would stand up and be counted but they don't.

There are quite a lot of male allies aren’t there? Some trans identified, some not.

If they feel alienated by women having firm boundaries, I don’t find it supportive, I think their presence is the opposite- corrosive, gradually undermining our relationship with the truth and our own right to say “no” to men.

I don't belong to any particular camp, I'm just outlining my own personal position. For me this is now first and foremost a practical movement which needs to have real life, practical political consequence - or else it can easily turn into a talking shop. I get the theoretical points, of course, but my priority is political action and achievement, certainly in the short-term.

Intellectual debate is great, and interesting, and necessary - but primarily I am conscious that we have a limited time in which to effect change, and prevent Self Id being implemented in a way which impinges on single sex spaces, and which further embeds the ideology in schools.

I want to start to turn back the tide of gender identity theory with all of its regressive consequences. I know it is going to take a long time because it has become so embedded - but we have to deal with matters one step at a time and try to take people with us.

Seems a good opportunity to share Dr Em's article about Forced Teaming

uncommongroundmedia.com/forced-teaming-feminism-lgb-and-trans-rights/

a hard-line GC purity spiral which takes no prisoners and no shit. The whole issue then becomes a theoretical or academic

There is nothing theroretical or academic about criticising or indeed rejecting the concept of 'gender'.

Sex is sex is sex. People cannot change sex. Gender on the other hand is an academic theory some people choose to apply to some aspects of their lives. That does not change their sex, or make people with XY chromosomes who have gone through male puberty 'safe' around women.

Okay. I apologise for using the word ‘camp’.

I suppose I was trying to say obliquely- we have been around this block before. Your rationale is identical to WPUK.

@EndlessTea
I don't think what you said is anything-phobic. As I understand it, you are putting the welfare of the child first and central to that welfare is it being able to form a strong bond with its mother in its early years. In sad or unfortunate circumstances like maternal death, sickness or unfitness to care for a child, it would be much better to place the child with a gay couple or a single man than let it languish in care. However, to deliberately create a situation in which there can be no maternal bond, is wrong.
I hope that is an accurate summary of your position.

The question is: how important is the maternal bond for the child's development and psychological security? Etc. If we think harm is done to children who are separated from their biological mothers, we stop right there. The welfare of the child is paramount. The issue is not whether men or gay men can be good dads, of course they can. It's that that only matters when the decision has already been taken to separate the child from its mother for the child's sake.

Yup and they can all go into the men's room and turn it into a Men's room + TIQ ! etc

And leave Women bathrooms alone

If you want positive and meaningful change then you have to take as many people with you as you can. I don't position men or males as being necessarily hostile or suspect or the enemy, even as I very much appreciate the need, and the reasons, for single sex spaces, services and categories.

We need men as well as women to speak up and find in favour of common sense reality.

Yes, this is exactly it. Thank you.

We need men as well as women to speak up and find in favour of common sense reality.

I agree. The vast majority of men are able to do this without expecting us to compromise our own boundaries.